87 CRX Si w/ 1st Gen B16a final drive Q

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typej said:
Just so that you guys get a better understanding of my goals:
1987 Honda CRX Si
JDM (OBD 0) B16a
B20 Block
turbocharged (full-race.com stage 1 kit) 300 whp
Possibly with a 4.05 final drive ratio.

At the moment, I'm basically refreshing the internals of the motor (piston rings, main bearings, replacing, etc.) because I have just received it.

Oh, by the way, did you know that the K24 motor is the same price as my complete swap, minus the axles, but the Hasport motor mounts are about the same price.
I know that it doesn't have much for torque, but in an 1800 lb. chassis that's stripped, I believe I have a greater advantage than some of the stock b16 cars.
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OK... so you arent going all motor well you might to shoot for alittle higher hp to get you in the 11's. ohh and ditch the obd 0 and get you a p28. better tuning options



soryy just read that you got a obd0 b16. oops. I thought you planned on staying obd0. my bad. still make sure you get a good tune
 
plenty of people racing with b16's, let me tell you that longer gears only make the car slower. How do I know this? I have an LS transmission, and I will tell you it is lame, I WANT shorter gears. Real power on my b18a doesn't hit until about 5000rpm, and it's even worse for b16s. It doesn't take much timei to shift, I don't know why you want to do 80mph in 2nd gear. If you want to do that, buy an R1. A short geared transmission with a large FD will help with acceleration. The reason drag cars use bigger tires is because they use slicks whose side walls are super flexible, and allow for a larger contact patch as the sidewalls wrinkle on launch. I'm sure the diameter is selected with some intelligence, but bigger does not necessarily mean better as far as tire diameter. Go with a shorter geared transmission with appropriate final drive. My .02.
 
In a way I can see where you are going with this but not really. Thanks for trying to help the honda community but it's not really helping the community when I dont think many of us will ever want a 2.5 final drive in our daily drivin vehicles. Also... your friend with the ctr cams and skunk2 springs ect is putting down more torque than your stock setup so the comparison is pretty pointless. As it has already been stated go with a shorter geared trans and dont waste your money on that kind of final drive setup... buy some cams or build a turbo setup.
 
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MikeBergy said:
The reason drag cars use bigger tires is because they use slicks whose side walls are super flexible, and allow for a larger contact patch as the sidewalls wrinkle on launch. I'm sure the diameter is selected with some intelligence, but bigger does not necessarily mean better as far as tire diameter.
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The diameter of the tire affects your final drive as if it was a gear itself. If you looked at Fatboy Raceworks Transmission Gear Ratio Calculator - Honda/Acura & More and put in your stock tire size and say tire size for a drag radial you will notice that each gear will have an increase in speed with the final gear, 5th or 6th, having the most increase, regardless of what your final drive is.
 
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/A26574B8-3F42-4F31-8760-EADE3FBBA6B1.htm

typej said:
The diameter of the tire affects your final drive as if it was a gear itself. If you looked at Fatboy Raceworks Transmission Gear Ratio Calculator - Honda/Acura & More and put in your stock tire size and say tire size for a drag radial you will notice that each gear will have an increase in speed with the final gear, 5th or 6th, having the most increase, regardless of what your final drive is.
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this is true. i like my 15's.

check out the title to see my video. b16 tranny in crx with lsvtec swapp running obd1
 
typej said:
The diameter of the tire affects your final drive as if it was a gear itself. If you looked at Fatboy Raceworks Transmission Gear Ratio Calculator - Honda/Acura & More and put in your stock tire size and say tire size for a drag radial you will notice that each gear will have an increase in speed with the final gear, 5th or 6th, having the most increase, regardless of what your final drive is.
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Lol, I'm well aware of how gearing works. I am also well aware that a taller tire is going to effectively give you higher gearing - I am sure that most drag cars are setup with a set of slicks or drag radials that have tried different size tires and found which size works best for their specific application, but was merely noting that most drag cars have bigs slicks for the wrinkle walls- gearing is only a secondary priority.

Still not buying your reasons for lowering your final drive and going with bigger tires. I will tell you now that I have had 205/50-R16s on my integra, and the car was a DOG. I have 205/45-R16s on there now, and the accleration is much better. If I had a crapton of torque, and was drag racing, and was eating 205/45-r16s for breakfast because I couldn't get any traction, I might try moving up a tire size to see if the change in gearing helped with launches, but that's probably the only reason I'd make the move, and that only after all the other necessary traction goodies and trick.
 
MikeBergy said:
Still not buying your reasons for lowering your final drive and going with bigger tires. I will tell you now that I have had 205/50-R16s on my integra, and the car was a DOG. I have 205/45-R16s on there now, and the accleration is much better. If I had a crapton of torque, and was drag racing, and was eating 205/45-r16s for breakfast because I couldn't get any traction, I might try moving up a tire size to see if the change in gearing helped with launches, but that's probably the only reason I'd make the move, and that only after all the other necessary traction goodies and trick.
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From what I understand, putting on larger tires, would be like putting on a final drive ratio that is lower than what is factory. In my case, I'm going from
185 60R 14 to a 215 40R 17. Just swapping the tires causes a drastic change in the final speed at the given rpm based on the calculator. In the lower gears, I was about 2 mph faster with the taller tires, which means false reading on the speedometer. But, in fith gear I would be around 7 mph faster. Remember that the 17's overall diameter is about a 1/2 inch all around equalling to a little over an inch taller than the 14.

In your case you've gained in acceleration, but lost in speed. Also, you would have to shift quicker because of your rpms rapping quicker. The deeper gears, or larger tires would equate to you being in gears longer, not having quick acceleration, but being able to go faster, and having traction. At the drag strip they go with larger tires for a greater contact patch area, which would equal traction, but it would also mean that the final drive would be slightly altered.

I'm not trying to build a quick car. I'm building a fast car. There's a difference.
 
I would STRONGLY recommend you get the car running and actually drive it before you go getting custom gears built...

first gen crx + 100+mph = fucking scary...
 
Well, you aren't going to win any real races with a setup that you are planning. Shifting takes much less time than you think if that's the reason you are doing this. If you are going to the salt flats, fine, you are doing a fine job building a fast bonneville racer. But for drag racing, especially with a honda engine, you want to be in your powerband, and in your case, vtec, for as long as possible. longer gears just drop you out of your powerband, out of vtec, and out of the race. But I won't let my narrow mindedness hold you back if you want to spend gobs of money on specially made parts just so you can lose drag races, road races, autox's, any other race you can think of beside saltflats runs. Good luck.
 
MikeBergy said:
Well, you aren't going to win any real races with a setup that you are planning. Shifting takes much less time than you think if that's the reason you are doing this. If you are going to the salt flats, fine, you are doing a fine job building a fast bonneville racer. But for drag racing, especially with a honda engine, you want to be in your powerband, and in your case, vtec, for as long as possible. longer gears just drop you out of your powerband, out of vtec, and out of the race. But I won't let my narrow mindedness hold you back if you want to spend gobs of money on specially made parts just so you can lose drag races, road races, autox's, any other race you can think of beside saltflats runs. Good luck.
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Um, that kind of hurt there dog. For a moment, I was respecting your opinion. Obviously we have two different mind concepts. I am basically doing research on what may be out there before I spend the money.
 
yeah but he has a point. Again thats what makes a honda special. when a v8 falls flat on its face in the top end. were just getting winded up. I think you should just find the shortest tranny possible,put a good lsd in and roll with it. if you drive on the highway then go install an Ls 5th gear. put some 18's if you want to lenghten the final drive some more and call it a day..lol.

however dont let us discourage you. its just something we never thought of before because we dont really need it. however. if you do ahead with this the go for it. Wish you the best of luck keep us informed of what you find. or if you change your mind
 
Um, that kind of hurt there dog. For a moment, I was respecting your opinion. Obviously we have two different mind concepts. I am basically doing research on what may be out there before I spend the money.
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it appears to me that your mind concept = f'in video games...
what are you trying to do here?
 
I'm just trying to save you lot's of headaches and money down the road. There are plenty of people in the turbo honda b-series world that have had the thoughts you do. You think that you have thought of something original in the honda world? It's all been done. The cheapest and easiest way to find out if you like long gears, and if it will work for you, is to go out, buy an LS transmission and some huge tires for your turbo setup, and see how you like it. Lots of turbo people have had this setup in the past, thinking that longer gearing would be good, so they wouldn't have to change gears so often. 99% of them switched over to a shorter geared transmission. Just search on here, on honda-tech, on g2ic.com, etc... for people who have tried this combination. If you don't want to believe me, as I have a long geared LS transmission, and you don't want to believe the countless others who thought of this before you (probably after playing the same video game, lol), then do yourself a favor and buy an LS transmission, some big ol' tires, and try it for yourself. Like I said before, good luck.
 
i would also highly recommend reading the honda tuning articles on the salt flat runs, the 3 and 5 mile courses
i know there were at least 2 honda tuning magazines that had salt flat cars on the front covers...
i think one was a JRSC B16, and the other was a NA B20vtec
i believe they were able to achieve their goal of a 200+ mph run on their second trip there, but it required an insane amount of money and work, and you need a 5 mile straight to get the car up to that speed...

good luck though
and just so you know, i think a stock GSR car reach 130 or 140 with no change in gears..
 
135 in my LS, with plenty of rpm left, just no power.
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i think thats the aerodynamic threshold they mention in honda tuning...
the motor just doesn't have enough power to overcome the aerodynamic friction at that speed...
:)
 
reckedracing said:
i think thats the aerodynamic threshold they mention in honda tuning...
the motor just doesn't have enough power to overcome the aerodynamic friction at that speed...
:)
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aerodynamic drag, not to mention rolling resistance, and drivetrain drag. It's different for every car though, as different cars have different parasitic drag coefficients, not to mention more power available.
 
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