90 si starter problems

[HATCHET_HONDA]

The starter is not dying. I've a similar problem. If I jumper the hot from the battery to the solenoid... vrooom.

My '91 DX Hatch doesn't require the clutch to be depressed to start. Have to check and see if a jumper has replaced the neutral safety switch and is getting loose. I don't relish climbing under the dash to find it.

Mine does it when really cold; under 32F.

Is there a relay between the ignition and the solenoid? My Haynes manual is WORTHLESS for most of the stuff on this car and the wiring schematic showing the start circuit is missing.

HATCHET, have you had any luck isolating the problem?

nope....it starts whenever the fuck it wants to. when it doesnt i just jump the starter positive wire on the battery. i have unhooked my clutch switch connector and jumped it with a paperclip. i still have no idea why it doesnt kick in if i turn my lites on before i turn the key...wtf?

 

[Justin91civic]

The electrical gremlins are back and they are causing havoc inside of your dash. You probably got a crossed or shorted wire somewhere.

 

[SpacePirate]

nope....it starts whenever the fuck it wants to. when it doesnt i just jump the starter positive wire on the battery. i have unhooked my clutch switch connector and jumped it with a paperclip. i still have no idea why it doesnt kick in if i turn my lites on before i turn the key...wtf?

I finally found some wiring schematics.

Your issue with the headlights might be associated with the ELD... electronic load detector, but that's a WAG. The ELD has a lead that routes to many items. Sorry, can't find it routed to the start circuit in a direct manner, but you know the deal with computers. The computer could tell the solenoid not to engage since there isn't enough juice?? A test might be to hook up to another car (jump start), turn on the headlights and see if the problem still exists??? Then it might indicate that your battery isn't strong enough to satisfy the computer??? FIIK.

I found a "starter relay" noted in the schematic. It's only used on the manual transmission cars. I guess I'll try to replace that and see if it works. It's the only thing it might be at this point IMHO.

I have to figure it out soon because the snow is coming and jumping the solenoid from the battery is no fun at 6:30 a.m. with snow all around and roll starting prolly isn't an option on the snow. It was 24F this morning... had to roll start it again =P

 

[HATCHET_HONDA]

I finally found some wiring schematics.

Your issue with the headlights might be associated with the ELD... electronic load detector, but that's a WAG. The ELD has a lead that routes to many items. Sorry, can't find it routed to the start circuit in a direct manner, but you know the deal with computers. The computer could tell the solenoid not to engage since there isn't enough juice?? A test might be to hook up to another car (jump start), turn on the headlights and see if the problem still exists??? Then it might indicate that your battery isn't strong enough to satisfy the computer??? FIIK.

I found a "starter relay" noted in the schematic. It's only used on the manual transmission cars. I guess I'll try to replace that and see if it works. It's the only thing it might be at this point IMHO.

I have to figure it out soon because the snow is coming and jumping the solenoid from the battery is no fun at 6:30 a.m. with snow all around and roll starting prolly isn't an option on the snow. It was 24F this morning... had to roll start it again =P

yea i hate jumping the solenoid..ppl look at you like you your brokedown and need help lol..ive tried 2 diff batteries and nothin. but yea i think the problem lies somewhere with a relay. its getting juice, but not enough when other components are turned on.

 

[SpacePirate]

FYI - Civic Starter Cut Relay Numbers; 1991 Model

Hatchet: Okay, since you tried the batteries maybe it's your relay too? For @ $40 you can find out..... the wiring schematic I have shows it's for MT's, 1990-1991. It's behind the radio, attached to a metal cross member that helps support the radio behind the console. You should hear it clicking when you rotate the key to the crank position. I might just take pics for everyone.

I was able to 'dislodge' the relay from the bracket and, through some detective work, come up with the following numbers for the Starter Relay a.k.a. Starter Cut Relay for manual transmission equipped 1991 Civic Hatchbacks (should be the same for the 1990 models, too), for everybody's future reference:

Denso - Part # 056700-9410 (this is the number on the relay itself)
Honda - Part # 39797-SH2-003
BorgWarner - Part # R6070
Napa - Part # AR6076

Honda defines it as a power relay. BorgWarner defines it as an AC relay (I don't have AC on the car, and this relay clicks when I turn the key to 'crank' so I'm sure I have the right relay).

I'm getting the part from Napa since they can have it to me today... $36.98 + tax. Majestic Honda had it for @ $21, but after S&H, it came up to @ $37 and I'd have to wait for the mail.

If it keeps me from adding a switch and wiring to jury-rig the starter AND keeps me from having to pop the hood, it'll be well worth the cost!!

I'll try to report back tomorrow. It'll be cold again, so if the car cranks after replacement, I've found the culprit. I'll prolly open up the old relay casing to see if I can see anything obviously wrong.... I'm just the curious type

 

[HATCHET_HONDA]

Hatchet: Okay, since you tried the batteries maybe it's your relay too? For @ $40 you can find out..... the wiring schematic I have shows it's for MT's, 1990-1991. It's behind the radio, attached to a metal cross member that helps support the radio behind the console. You should hear it clicking when you rotate the key to the crank position. I might just take pics for everyone.

I was able to 'dislodge' the relay from the bracket and, through some detective work, come up with the following numbers for the Starter Relay a.k.a. Starter Cut Relay for manual transmission equipped 1991 Civic Hatchbacks (should be the same for the 1990 models, too), for everybody's future reference:

Denso - Part # 056700-9410 (this is the number on the relay itself)
Honda - Part # 39797-SH2-003
BorgWarner - Part # R6070
Napa - Part # AR6076

Honda defines it as a power relay. BorgWarner defines it as an AC relay (I don't have AC on the car, and this relay clicks when I turn the key to 'crank' so I'm sure I have the right relay).

I'm getting the part from Napa since they can have it to me today... $36.98 + tax. Majestic Honda had it for @ $21, but after S&H, it came up to @ $37 and I'd have to wait for the mail.

If it keeps me from adding a switch and wiring to jury-rig the starter AND keeps me from having to pop the hood, it'll be well worth the cost!!

I'll try to report back tomorrow. It'll be cold again, so if the car cranks after replacement, I've found the culprit. I'll prolly open up the old relay casing to see if I can see anything obviously wrong.... I'm just the curious type

yea mine clicks too but doesnt always engage the starter. you say its behind the radio? like on the bottom or right behind it? get some pics if you can that would be awesome. and i sure hope that fixes the starter problem. if so ill be taking a drive to napa ^_^

 

[SpacePirate]

Strike TWO!!

$40 down the drain.

My ghetto a$$ was under the hood this morning jumping the solenoid after brushing an inch of snow off the car!!

New relay made no difference. Power is getting to the relay. It clicks. The same power is supposed to go to the solenoid. It leaves the relay to the dash fuse box and from the fuse box to the solenoid.

Anyone want to make a guess where the bad connection is? I may run a fused wire from the relay to the solenoid and call it a day... but being a perfectionist of sorts, I'll try to find the actual problem.

I'm guessing a bad connection at the fuse box that when cold, shrinks and won't make the necessary connection.

- SP

 

[HATCHET_HONDA]

$40 down the drain.

My ghetto a$$ was under the hood this morning jumping the solenoid after brushing an inch of snow off the car!!

New relay made no difference. Power is getting to the relay. It clicks. The same power is supposed to go to the solenoid. It leaves the relay to the dash fuse box and from the fuse box to the solenoid.

Anyone want to make a guess where the bad connection is? I may run a fused wire from the relay to the solenoid and call it a day... but being a perfectionist of sorts, I'll try to find the actual problem.

I'm guessing a bad connection at the fuse box that when cold, shrinks and won't make the necessary connection.

- SP

man so close i thought you had it.. ive had this problem on 2 of 3 hatches ive had..sucks

 

[SpacePirate]

Getting warmer... and I ain't speaking of the temp outside

Getting close.... after work, being as it's cold as stink outside right now (9F as I type this), Frankie (short for Frankenstein since he's got so many parts from other Civics...) wouldn't crank.

Took the fuse panel off, held the ignition switch in the crank position, started wiggling wire bundles around and after @ 15 secs of fiddling.... jeeda, jeeda, jeeda - vroom.

So now I know I have a bad connection somewhere around the fuse block. It has an aftermarket alarm installed under there, so I imagine one of the bad connections could be associated with that.... or it may just be a bad connection at the fuse block.

I'll be digging into it tomorrow and will report what I find, especially if it's something related to factory components.

- SP

 

[SpacePirate]

Fixed!

Someone yanked the wires out of the clutch safety switch; they were just barely touching so it would start when warm outside. Twisted wires together and put shrink wrap over the joint. No more problems!!

I was lucky to find the wires before digging out the fuse box.

Looking at a '90 Si tomorrow. Might have to trade up

 

[neophish]

Mr. SpacePirate

where did you find those wiring diagrams? and can you share them?

i've got a load of electrical issues and the starter stopped working today
anything would help

thx