Ahhh, the conservatives... they never cease to amaze me.

[FFCiv]

To conclude this thread. I'm 17 and got a 1330 on my SAT BITCHES

 

[Airjockie]

"It's like comparing apples & oranges"? Well, I've been trying to figure out what's so bad about comparing them.

Apples are red, oranges are orange. Apples, you can eat the skins without making a horrid face. Oranges, you can eat the skins but they're bitter. Apples have seeds that if you eat 20,000 thousand of them you'll die of strychnine poisoning. Oranges, if you eat all those seeds, an orange tree will sprout from your belly button (no wait, that's watermelons). Apples you can juggle, oranges you can juggle even better. Apples you can slice into wedges, oranges just naturally divide into wedges. Neither an apple nor an orange has hair growing on it. If you put peeled apples in a bucket of milk, the apples float; if you put peeled oranges in a bucket of milk, the milk clots. If you use an orange as a baseball it goes "squenk" when it hits the bat, but an apple goes "squig-plooey."

If you drop an apple & an orange at the same time off the Space Needle, & there's a kid down there looking straight up into the sky at you, not only can you kill him, but his face will be totally unrecognizable, no matter which fruit hits him between the eyes. Sailors who ate lots of oranges didn't get scurvy, but apples went bad & everyone got drunk & happy on the juice.

I'm sure there are many more comparisons, but I can't find the "bad" comparison that justifies the common disdain for comparing apples & oranges.

Fuuny item I googled....

 

[Sabz5150]

Quoted post[/post]]
I declare Cashizslick the winner of this argument. You may all go home now, be careful on the roads. Take care, and thanks for coming !


Good night Cleveland!

Overruled.

 

[totalburnout]

Quoted post[/post]]

Quoted post[/post]]
I declare Cashizslick the winner of this argument. You may all go home now, be careful on the roads. Take care, and thanks for coming !


Good night Cleveland!

Overruled.

Figures.

Blanco said its comparing apples and oranges about acts, but they should be viewed in the same way because their motives were the same.

This is going to be taken down to the most simplistic level thats going to make it incredibley hard to argue with, but I'm sure a handful of you will still bang your head against a brick wall.

Motive; To become wealthy.

Action 1 taken;A man puts on a ski mask, carries a gun, robs a convience store and murders the cashier. He continues his string of crime, robbing and murdering in an attempt to acquire wealth. He's committed immoral crimes and has only been stopped when shot dead by a convience store clerk turned vigilante.

Action 2 taken;A man educates himself, scraping, saving, apprenticing, working his butt off, doing anything to benefit his cause and he gains connections, to the dismay of all of those that come from old money, through his hard work and dedication. He scripes and saves, invests and becomes a millionaire in a relatively short period of time. He's gone from rags to riches.

What do these two acts have in common? One thing, motive. Are they still completely different? Absolutely. Yet you still go ahead and argue that they're similiar. Is the moon similiar to the earth? Of course, there's similarities in everything but that doesn't mean that they possess enough similiarities to be alike.

Both the patriots of the past and the muslims of today are considered terrorists. Did they employ the same means to justify the end? No. So this is comparing apples and oranges as you so delicately put.

 

[Battle Pope]

Our Forefathers' America, I think you will find, wasn't nearly as rational, moral, and peaceful as you seem to think.

People were VERY often made examples of, often publicly and exceedingly brutally.

Did they make an internet beheading video? No. Did they drag you out into the town square and hang/shoot/tar and feather you? More often than not.

Would anyone in America do that now? Maybe, but not without repercussions. The difference is, America has become "civilized", and the Muslim countries have not. It may be comparing apples and oranges NOW, but if you look at America in the time leading up to and including it's birth and evolution, I think you will find many more parallels.

Religious intolerance? Witch hunts (and subsequent burnings).

Public punishment (often brutal and fatal)? Tar and feathering, or any of the other techniques employed at the time.

If we stop and make the comparisons to the ACTUAL EVENTS, we see that America hasn't always been the nation it is now.

 

[Sabz5150]

Quoted post[/post]]
Motive; To become wealthy.

Action 1 taken;A man puts on a ski mask, carries a gun, robs a convience store and murders the cashier. He continues his string of crime, robbing and murdering in an attempt to acquire wealth. He's committed immoral crimes and has only been stopped when shot dead by a convience store clerk turned vigilante.

Action 2 taken;A man educates himself, scraping, saving, apprenticing, working his butt off, doing anything to benefit his cause and he gains connections, to the dismay of all of those that come from old money, through his hard work and dedication. He scripes and saves, invests and becomes a millionaire in a relatively short period of time. He's gone from rags to riches.

I will give you one guess as to which one is closer to the people in power.

THAT is the problem. The corruption in places of power is absolutely mind bending and people ignore it. It's alright to screw the taxpayer to give your buddies a nice fat contract, it's alright to commit an act of TREASON as long as our current motive is justified, it's alright to award tax breaks to the wealthy at the cost of everyone else so long as it gets you the campaign contributions and votes you want, it's alright to axe thousands of American jobs and ship them off to foreign countries to increase your bottom line (and your already oversized salary).

Both sides play the game, the right MUCH MUCH more than everyone else and they love to trumpet the corruption of others while outright smearing and destroying anyone that even implies that their people are corrupt.

 

[totalburnout]

Quoted post[/post]]
I will give you one guess as to which one is closer to the people in power.

THAT is the problem. The corruption in places of power is absolutely mind bending and people ignore it. It's alright to screw the taxpayer to give your buddies a nice fat contract, it's alright to commit an act of TREASON as long as our current motive is justified, it's alright to award tax breaks to the wealthy at the cost of everyone else so long as it gets you the campaign contributions and votes you want, it's alright to axe thousands of American jobs and ship them off to foreign countries to increase your bottom line (and your already oversized salary).

Both sides play the game, the right MUCH MUCH more than everyone else and they love to trumpet the corruption of others while outright smearing and destroying anyone that even implies that their people are corrupt.

You, down off the soapbox.

You're so blinded by ignorance that everything revolves back to an issue about those in power and money against YOU. The world isn't against you, not everyone is against you. If you like to think pessimistically and cynically then you're going to have a terribley unhappy life.

The issue at hand that we're currently talking about is terrorists, I point out that you deem Blanco the champion of the arguement yet he's the one comparing apples to oranges. Don't let this stop you however to reverting back to your rant about conservatives and how they ruin the world; thats such an intelligent and worthwhile argument.


Battle Pope -

I realize that the patriots were terrorists and did some not so nice things, but the British also did some not so nice things and the punishment during the time was death. Patriots were killed and patriots killed, it was open warfare. The muslim extremists killed innocent people long before any war was declared between both sides of the conflict. I'm not blowing my trumpet or bellowing out how respectful and polite the patriots were, but they went about the issue differently and even when they used force it was more or less socially acceptable at the time, in current times it is not.

 

[Battle Pope]

Quoted post[/post]]

Quoted post[/post]]
I will give you one guess as to which one is closer to the people in power.

THAT is the problem. The corruption in places of power is absolutely mind bending and people ignore it. It's alright to screw the taxpayer to give your buddies a nice fat contract, it's alright to commit an act of TREASON as long as our current motive is justified, it's alright to award tax breaks to the wealthy at the cost of everyone else so long as it gets you the campaign contributions and votes you want, it's alright to axe thousands of American jobs and ship them off to foreign countries to increase your bottom line (and your already oversized salary).

Both sides play the game, the right MUCH MUCH more than everyone else and they love to trumpet the corruption of others while outright smearing and destroying anyone that even implies that their people are corrupt.

You, down off the soapbox.

You're so blinded by ignorance that everything revolves back to an issue about those in power and money against YOU. The world isn't against you, not everyone is against you. If you like to think pessimistically and cynically then you're going to have a terribley unhappy life.

The issue at hand that we're currently talking about is terrorists, I point out that you deem Blanco the champion of the arguement yet he's the one comparing apples to oranges. Don't let this stop you however to reverting back to your rant about conservatives and how they ruin the world; thats such an intelligent and worthwhile argument.


Battle Pope -

I realize that the patriots were terrorists and did some not so nice things, but the British also did some not so nice things and the punishment during the time was death. Patriots were killed and patriots killed, it was open warfare. The muslim extremists killed innocent people long before any war was declared between both sides of the conflict. I'm not blowing my trumpet or bellowing out how respectful and polite the patriots were, but they went about the issue differently and even when they used force it was more or less socially acceptable at the time, in current times it is not.

And my point being, the acts of terror that the Muslims are doing are socially acceptable to THEM. To THEM, it is not only condoned, but praised. Hence my mention that at the time, America was largely 'uncivilized', and so is the modern Muslim culture.

Then again, it could be argued that in a truly civilized society, there would be no place for extremism OR holy wars. But that opens another can of worms.

Sure, the Patriots may not have committed brutal mass murders of innocent people, but by and large the Founding Fathers were indeed terrorists. Hopefully, even you can concede to that.

 

[totalburnout]

Quoted post[/post]]
Sure, the Patriots may not have committed brutal mass murders of innocent people, but by and large the Founding Fathers were indeed terrorists. Hopefully, even you can concede to that.

Honestly, if you guys pulled your blinders off you would see I long since conceded to that.

I said they were extremists and terrorists but the means were different and in different times when certain things were social norms or socially acceptable; this is before the Industrial Revolution and peoples became "civilized".


Sidebar - Seriously, Battle Pope, Blanco, and Sabz you guys all fight tooth and nail and sometimes don't even know what you're fighting about. You guys may think I'm an asshole, but I highly doubt you act the same way offline that you do here or I doubt you'd be walking around. I'm not bashing you guys, but I honestly don't understand how you guys survive being so stubborn, and this is coming from a stubborn person.

 

[Battle Pope]

I, like you, see the board as a place to be at my most opinionated.

And I'm sure you did concede that point - it's common sense. I probably missed it.

And I may not know much about some things - but I have an opinion.

 

[Sabz5150]

Quoted post[/post]]
You, down off the soapbox.

You're so blinded by ignorance that everything revolves back to an issue about those in power and money against YOU. The world isn't against you, not everyone is against you. If you like to think pessimistically and cynically then you're going to have a terribley unhappy life.

The issue at hand that we're currently talking about is terrorists, I point out that you deem Blanco the champion of the arguement yet he's the one comparing apples to oranges. Don't let this stop you however to reverting back to your rant about conservatives and how they ruin the world; thats such an intelligent and worthwhile argument.

Never said the world was against me, now did I?

However I am fully capable of seeing when the general populace is being fucked up the ass without the benefit of KY.

You're so blinded by YOUR ignorance that everything revolves around a non-tangible enemy that can be used as the center point of any argument. Terrorist this, terrorist that, they'll convert us to dakka dakka, they hate our freedom, they'll put our women in beekeeper suits, blah blah blah BULLSHIT.

THIS thread was created because the Republicans in power are choosing to cut social programs and tack fees onto student loans in order to pay for what Katrina/Rita/Wilma did to the coast, NOT FUCKING TERRORISTS.

However you saw a perfect chance to stand up for what's left of your party's/base's morals and ethics that you just had to kick it into Terrorist gear, the last and most effective resort of the 'cons today. Crack a fuckin history book once and you might realize that we're being played into the same game that so many before us have fallen victim to.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

That was my sig for quite some time. It's a true quote from Herman Goering during the Nuremberg trials after WWII. What's so disturbing is how damn true it is. How do you think Hitler gained such a following? Hell, how do you think Osama gained (and is gaining) such a following?

All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.

That's exactly how. Take a nice, hard look at the events of the past four years. Take an even harder look at the actions and words of the current administration. You speak of me being blind, however you are the one that is blindly following this administration into the downward spiral of this great country.

By the way, I never declared ANYONE the winner of ANY argument. Your conservative buddy did that one, stomping his foot down like some badass. Once again, you're only looking two inches in front of your face and thinking that's the big picture.

Now that I have completely smashed you into the ground and stomped on your head a'la American History X, I'll go back onto my lil soapbox over here.


EDIT: Just as a nice lil tack on after the fact, here's the entire quote for ya.

We got around to the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his attitude, I did not think that the common people are very thankful for leaders who bring them war and destruction.

"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

 

[totalburnout]

HAHAHAHAHA you just used every general assumption known to man.

My ignorance? Funny, because you didn't list my opinion there at all. I'm not the one that views an intangible source, its you when you think us against them.


I wasn't even going to contribute to this thread, but seriously you need to get everything straight before attempting to make an educated post.

 

[reckedracing]

Hey, the IRA doesn't behead people on the internet either. Are you going to say that they're not terrorists either, now? That'd be an apples and oranges comparison, wouldn't it?

the term terrorist is thrown out there far too much lately...
people fighting against injustice should be considered heroes...
the arabs in pakistan had their country stolen from them
the irish were ass raped by the british, americans stood against the british, how can we, as americans, now say that what we did 200 years ago is wrong for them to do today?
and i would prefer not to comment on iraq, but how would you feel if a foreign army marched into NYC or DC and set up base, killed thousands of people, and imposed all sorts of restrictions while stomping the shit out of your national pride and fellow country men?

we went into iraq over false pretenses, but lets say for a moment that saddam really was the threat bush and company made him out to be... now we have saddam, so why do we continue to torture "detainees" (read: iraqi civilians) why do we continue an occupation? because of stability concerns? don't you think perhaps the country would be much more stable without the presence of a foreign occupying force?
perhaps there would be a little less for them to be so ass hurt about?

 

[Sabz5150]

Quoted post[/post]]
HAHAHAHAHA you just used every general assumption known to man.

My ignorance? Funny, because you didn't list my opinion there at all. I'm not the one that views an intangible source, its you when you think us against them.


I wasn't even going to contribute to this thread, but seriously you need to get everything straight before attempting to make an educated post.

Ya didn't save much face there.

Once again, where did I say "us against them"? I thought that was a conservative tagline. The good ol "You're either with us or with the terrorists" comes to mind. I however did state that our current administration has fucked up on a scale so massive, most people can't even fathom it. I did state that they continue to pass their buddies breaks at the cost of the average American taxpayer.

And while I'm here... gotta defend myself personally against this nitrous guy.

so you wasted that by dropping out of school? i'm sure jesus loves you for that

Ya got that backwards. I wasted my time WITH school. Do you know what highschool is today? It's a gigantic popularity contest... that's it. Who has the coolest car, who is fucking the lead cheerleader, who has the newest Timbelands on their feet, who is the best football player (hint: he's the one fucking the lead cheerleader).

Fuck that shit. Biggest waste of time ever. The actual education you get from a public high school is negligible, it's just a meat grinder of conformity. Nothing more.

are you bragging that you are smarter than the other 92% of DROPOUTS ?
cuz i really wouldn't mention that.

Ohhhhhhhh you just stepped on that landmine.

When does being a dropout make you stupid? Better yet, when does being a graduate make you smart? Because I see a LOT of stupid people with their diplomas. In contrast to that... one of my close friends is the lead SA of a university, raking in a hair over 90K... doesn't even have a GED. Hell, I landed my first job as an SA at 18 without a GED raking in fairly decent cash (~30K at 18 aint half bad)

Your views are so antiquated it's actually pretty funny. Whereas your motivations for your life came from, honestly I don't know so I will not assume... my main motivator was the cover of Wired magazine showing a 17 year old kid holding a keyboard above his head with the headline saying something to the effect of "17, 60K, NO DIPLOMA".

Oh, and to clarify, I was placed in the top 8 of people with a highschool level education, GED or old fashioned diploma. That's everyone.

 

[Celerity]

This is utter horseshit. Keep this thread open till I get home later please.

I can't let this "Patriots are Terrorists" bullshit go on any longer, but I have to work.

 

[Sabz5150]

Quoted post[/post]]
This is utter horseshit. Keep this thread open till I get home later please.

I can't let this "Patriots are Terrorists" bullshit go on any longer, but I have to work.

Be my guest, fire away.

Although it aint my battle, I'll throw in my opinion. Had the colonies lost the war, the founding fathers would be considered terrorists and holy hell would their deaths be grim. However, seeing that we won, they are hailed as patriots (and rightly so, they were fighting against an oppressive government).

History is written by the victors. Had Germany won WWII, Hitler would be hailed as the leader that united the world.

Just a tidbit to rattle around in your brain.

 

[dohcvtec_accord]

I fucking hate these threads. I immediately went to Page 5, and now here I am.

 

[totalburnout]

You're diluted.

You don't need to actually say the phrase "us against them" for it to be inferred. You keep talking about those with money beating up on or "being against" those who do not possess as much money or power or "us". Do you understand?

I'll break it down for you, the title of this thread is "Ahhh, the conservatives... they never cease to amaze me." Do you understand the whole concept of "us against them" now without actually stating the words? Probably not.


You're not bringing anything to the table. I'm not arguing with any of your points, other than to say that you bring complete opinion and falsehoods to the table. You back your points with left wing based publications that are going to slam conservatives. Do you think the same literature is not available from the conservatives about the liberals? ...lets think here. However, obliviously an extemist point of view is not the most intelligent point of view because it creates limitations which you have shown numerous times throughout the thread.


In all honesty, it hurts to hear someone so thick and ignorant about issues that they cannot budge. Try looking on the otherside for a change and you might see something new or worthwhile.

You, in your assumptions, have pegged me completely wrong. Never once did I say that the founding fathers were not terrorists, I argued the degree to which they were to be considered terrorists. I have already stated multiple times that I agree with issues on both side of the fence like abortion and stem cell research. Also I've stated how I'm no fan of Bush but I surely don't think Kerry was any better suited for the job. Kapeesh?

Quoted post[/post]]
You guys really need to stop focusing so much on "oh mah gawdx0rz, j00'r tlaken teh shitz bout teh mohst patriamonotic heroz eva!!!!one"

...and you need to stop *THINKING* you know everyone's personal opinions and feelings, and using these thoughts as your sole basis of an argument.

I'm not a patriotic chest beater and I disagree with you. That right there makes your entire argument, in regards to people viewing patriots differently from terrorists for the sole reason of being patriotic and not wanting to group the two together, crumble because I for one don't view them as terrorists and I don't fly the colors or harp on how great they were or how great this country is.

Disclaimer: I don't feel I have all the answers, but you guys sure put your opinions in concrete form as if its the gospel. I'll allow Celerity to do the rest of the talking.