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amp and speaker setup

Discussion in 'Car Audio / Security / Electronic Accessories' started by truoss, Dec 21, 2004.

  1. truoss

    truoss Senior Member

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    I have a pioneer head unit with 50wx4 output, I think 25w rms. I already have two 6" 180w 3 way sony explode speakers for the front, one 10" 800w sony explode subwoofer with an enclosure, and I plan on getting two 6x9 3 way sony explode speakers for the back. Are there better 6x9 speakers available for the same price as the sony's? I also need to know what amp would be best for me. I want to run all 4 speakers and the subwoofer. Does that mean I need a 5 channel amp? Please recommend a good amp (cheap, but not junk). I do not need the best system...but I want something decent. thx
     
  2. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    There are MUCH better speakers for the same price as Sonys.... JBL, Pioneer and Infinity are some in the "mainstream midrange" that sound way better than Sony speakers. A good inexpensive speaker that actually sounds damn good on head unit power is the JL TR series. You can find a set for about $100 new on eBay if you look around enough.

    http://www.jlaudio.com/evolution/TR690TX.html

    They totally blow the Sony speakers away.

    Decent cheapo amps would probably be Profile, US Acoustics... there are tons of ok mid range amplifiers that don't cost too much. Cruise around eBay and read reviews for a while. If you want a 5 channel amp, you're going to limit yourself on what you can buy. I would shop for a 4 channel plus a single channel (or a 2 channel that you'll bridge to 1) for your sub. You'll have a lot more options and probably still come out cheaper than a 5 channel.
     
  3. TommyTheCat

    TommyTheCat Gonzo Scientist

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    He is probably better off matching sony to sony for "colorization"-match, i.e. how badly the freq response is from flat (intended or not).

    5-channel are always pretty expensive. Easier to make a 4 channel and mono work, probably the same size too; if you're worried.

    http://www.thezeb.com/

    check out amp section.
     
  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    :lmao:

    That'll just overemphasize all the faults the Sony equipment has. :p

    I'm running a 5 channel Eclipse in my Civic- it's only 40x4+120, but it's really clean and powers my Polks and JL with quite a bit of authority. Good quality power. :)
     
  5. ^crx^

    ^crx^ Senior Member

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    here in norway is SS big and it dont sound that bad :) i have a 800.5 amp from they and is wery pleased with it
     
  6. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    i don't think you'll need any more than the deck power running to your mid range speakers since you only have one 10 inch sub...

    i would stick with just the deck and get an amp to power the sub and see how that sounds
     
  7. truoss

    truoss Senior Member

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    I didn't know Sony speakers were so bad. I haven't actually used them yet. Am I going to be really disappointed? =(

    My headunit isn't powerful enough to power two 6" and two 6x9" speakers, is it? I already have a two channel bridgable amplifier for the 10" sub, so now I just need a 4 channel amp for the speakers, right? Also, my headunit has a subwoofer output, but when I turn it on, the rear speakers do not work. How do I get around that problem?

    If you wanted two 6" and two 6x9" and one 10" sub and an amp or two to power everything, and you wanted to spend the least amount of money, but still get decent sound, what would you get? Would you at all use the sony speakers and sub that I already bought? thanks
     
  8. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Yeah, Sony speakers really aren't that great. Sony makes great displays, decent mid-range stereo equipment, ok computer, but really overpriced and not great sounding speakers.

    If you already have an amp for the sub, you only need to add an amp for the mains (4 channels). I don't know about your subwoofer output. Read the manual. You might have a switched sub/rear output or something.

    If you want to spend the least amount of money, just buy an amp and be done with it. I personally wouldn't want to run the Sony spearkers, but if they sound good to you, that's all that matters. The only "cheap" way to not use the Sony speakers you have is to return them straight up to where you bought them, get your money back, then buy something else. Reselling them to a third party usually won't get you all your cash back.
     
  9. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    you should have 4 channels of output from your deck...

    this should be enough to power those 4 sonys to sufficient levels ...

    no idea on the sub output and rears not working, sounds like you should get it professionally done before you fry your cars electronics..
     
  10. truoss

    truoss Senior Member

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    I already looked at my headunit manual, and it says that you can choose between rear speaker output and subwoofer output, but when you choose subwoofer output, the rear speakers turn off. I guess it bridges the rear speaker output into a single for the subwoofer. Strange. So, if I leave it on rear speaker output, how do I connect the sub?
     
  11. reckedracing

    reckedracing TTIWWOP VIP

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    does your radio have pre-amps on the back? if so how many sets?
     
  12. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Yeah just connect the amp to your preamp outputs. You should be able to run all 4 speakers plus the amp that way.
     
  13. adnoh

    adnoh Senior Member

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    Ok man, hope this helps......

    Do your self a favour and get a wiring harness for your specific car (if you havent already). Rip out the deck and start over. There is no way that a Pioneer deck would bridge the rears as a sub preamp considering that most Pioneer sub preamps run 2-4Volts. Color match the harness to your factory wiring except the ones for your midrange speakers. Connect the wiring for your mids now keeping them out of the way from the rest of the wires....group them with a pull tie if you can. Now if your deck has a designated sub preout, you will see a set of female RCA cables. Now your deck probably has more than one set of them....it probably has 3 sets....front/rear/sub. If this is your setup, then your problem is that you are hooking up your amp to the rear preout, not your sub preout....when you do this, your deck will automatically think that your sub is the rear speakers, cancel the signal to your rear speakers, and sound will play from the subs. This shit happens if stuff is not labelled. No biggie. Next will be to turn on your sub preout on your deck. Cycle through your settings, when you get to the sub menu, turn the sub on. Your in business. (also make sure your amp has a strong ground).
    If your deck does not have 1) More than 2 sets of female RCA preouts 2) A subwoofer setting on your deck...than chances are that your deck does not have sub-capability, and the RCA inputs on the back of your deck are for front/rear only.

    With that out of the way, and everything checks out, I think that you'll be fine powering your midrange speakers off your deck for now. The deck puts out plenty of power to handle a 10" woofer. As for an amp, something around the 200watt x1 RMS @4ohms area should be just fine. Wether that is a mono block amp or a bridgeable 2-channel is up to you. I know your sub says "800watts" but that is total bullshit....especially from Sony. I bet you I could throw a 250watt amp at it and it'll die pretty quick. Stick with the majors like Rockford/Phoenix Gold/JL/Eclipse......and you'll have a good setup. Remember.....500watts from Rockford Fosgate is TOTALLY diffrent than 500watts from a cheap-ass brand like kenwood or Sony.

    If your deck has filters (low-pass/high-pass), let me know when you get your setup running and I can instruct you how to use them properly so you can get a decent sounding system with those eXplod mids.....Filters are GOD....remember that....GOD!!!

    If you dont know what filters are about and do, I can post up a short article I wrote about proper useage. Just let me know.

    Hope all goes well.

    --Ryan.
     
  14. truoss

    truoss Senior Member

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    Thanks for all the replies!

    I just looked at my manual again, and it says that the subwoofer output is monaural. There are only two sets of female RCA outputs--one for the front speakers and one for the rear speakers, or one subwoofer. So, I guess my headunit can only run 2 speakers and a subwoofer, or 4 speakers...but not 4 speakers and a sub. Does this mean I need to get a new headunit, or is there any way to fix this problem?

    If you have that article about the filters handy, I'd like to read it. Thanks.
     
  15. adnoh

    adnoh Senior Member

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    Hey dude,

    So your Pioneer deck is a bit dated.....this could be a bit of a problem. Yes, you could run your subs off of your current setup by splicing your rear speaker wires and attach a line-level converter (changes a straight wire to an RCA) but this never ever turns out well. My advice would be to get a new deck that has designated sub preouts. You can get them pretty cheap nowdays. If you have the choice, get a deck that has high-pass and low-pass filters as well...best money you'll ever spend.
    Get the proper wiring harness as well...cuts your install time in half and they only cost like $15.

    Good luck on the install, and post or PM me if you have any more questions along the way.

    Here is a bit about filters from an old post and why they are so usefull.

    Cheers.




    your midrange speakers are one small part of the puzzle here . The MAIN part of getting a good sounding mid and high range of audio is your head unit. I'm guessing you are running the speakers off of your deck since you didn't mention an amp of any sort. Having access to filters through your head unit is the only way you will achieve desirable results when looking for crystal clean audio. Utilizing a High pass filter (assignable to cut out low distorting frequencies), and a low pass filter (assignable to cut out distorting high frequencies), you will be able to fine tune your speakers to the acoustical properties of your car. Ever notice that when you install speakers, throw in a CD and crank it up, it sounds like crap? And the higher you turn it up the more you have to start turning down your artificial EQ parameters (Bass+Trebel controls) to get rid of distortion? That's because your midrange speakers are not designed to handle sub bass frequencies (30-100Hz). That's the job of a subwoofer. And if you are not using filters of your head unit, you are sending your midrange speakers these distorting frequencies and creating un-necessary cone movement in your speaker. What I mean by un-necessary is that a speaker, just like any other sound emmiting device, has to abide by the laws of the EQ spectrum. A great recording will have each instrument "carved" out onto a specific place in the EQ spectrum, so that when it is played through a device (speaker) no two instruments will be fighting for the same frequencies, therefore cancelling eachother out and creating noise (distortion). If you have a speaker that is taking on too much sub bass frequency and creating unnecessary cone movement, then the rest of the low end frequencies will suffer because they cannot move the cone properly to create the proper sound. Hence using a filter. If you can keep your gains (volume) at it's maximum potential, and cut out the low distoring frequencies, then you can optimize your speakers and have them sounding crystal clear and loud, without any distortion, and also a lessen the load that will extend the life of your speakers as well. You can use this same process to "carve out" a spot in the EQ spectrum for a subwoofer if you ever decide to get one by cutting out useless high frequencies.
    If you dont know what I mean by the "EQ Spectrum" think of it this way: A normal EQ goes from left to right, or Bass through Trebel (Bass.......Middle..........Trebel). Take a normal band for instance. Each instrument will fit into one of these three areas. A bass guitar will play low frequencies, lead and rythem guitars will play in the midrange, drums will play all over the place (Kick drum in Sub Bass, snare in midrange and hats and cymbals in high range). As I said before, a good recording will have carved out a specific spot in the spectrum, so that no two sounds are "fighting" for the same frequency on the speaker, becuase when the two conflict, then you get distortion or cancellation fo both sounds. Same goes for listening to your music.



    Ryan.
     
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