And the crusade continues

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For better or worse, in our society We've placed the priority on the husbands decision. Of course that doesn't always mean that the spouse of a brain dead person has their best interest in mind, but only if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise should their decision in the matter be voided.
Of course more than anything I have a problem with the means of ending her life, whether or not she can feel it. More than anything this is the textbook case for euthanasia, as its a much kinder alternative.
Another factor to consider is, to what end are we keeping her alive? concensus among the doctors I've read about is that there is no hope of improving her condition. Isn't it cruel to keep her alive just so her parents can look at her and feel sorry? Given the limited nature of resources, what makes her so special that she can inproportionally suck up rescources when they would obviously be better spent on people who actually have a hope of recovering. I think the utilitarian perspective is something we need to consider. What action will do the most amount of good for the most amount of people? Of the myriad of possibilities, I am sure that keeping this poor woman alive is certainly not fulfilling that question.
Of course this doesn't factor into the decision at all, but I couldn't think of anything more sad than watching my hopelessly injured daughter in a situation like that. I don't know to what capacity her brain is functioning, but to me there is almost nothing more frightening than only being able to observe from my body, and I would never wish that on anybody (which is why the end to being john malkovitch bugs the shit out of me)
 
let her die. If she was thinking ANYTHING right now, i'm 99% percent she's thinking to die. The longer she stays in that state the faster her body will shut down. The parents just can't let go that's all. They are being selfish i think.
To me catholics are the most ignorant peopl on earth. Not all of couse but the real bible bangers think your either catholic or your gonna die. shit let me stop now, POLOTICS AND RELIGION are the worst topics to talk about. with that said...............i hate all bushes and Arnorld Shittyfinger
 
You guys dont' really get the debate. Its more along the lines of who decides if she lives or dies, not what the circumstances of her "brain activity" is.

Her husband has had a girlfriend(now fiance) for 13 years, and can't marry until divorced from her, meaning she has to die. When she dies he gets paid as well. Her parent's want him to sign over "legal custody" to them, so they can keep her alive for ever along as they want, which means they can also have her divorced from her husband, but the husband doesn't want to loose his power in her life. More along the lines of, it seems to me that he wants to get paid, and move on with his life, and not have to "forget'.

I say sign her over to the parent's. He can walk away and get married all he wants, and she will still live, and you still don't lose face at the end of the day.
 
ok fine. I'm all for giving her to her parents but money is involved here. We cant just say ohh he just wants to get paid. fuck dudes, i dont think its fair that he loses (what half of what he's got?) all that money just because her parents want her alive. If tha parents want to keep her then fine take her and pay for the bill. I say sign her over to the parent if he want to but treat this money situation like as if she passed away...in other words he keep the money. I still say pull the plug
 
Originally posted by Sabz5150@Mar 21 2005, 03:52 PM

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All of that was good, your point is made and I concede. I was wrong in my documents, and you were right.

The Tripoli document was a neat reference - Our first war with Muslims :)

My reference to the poignance of God in the US formation was broadened - What I (as well as others that make the same mistake) had in mind were founding words and phrases such as "In god we trust" and ".. under god, indivisible" These are seperate documents from our foundation bill of rights.

Even more general than money , I believe we can simplify this with a great thought that none of us should forget:

WE have no right, knowledge or nearly enough wisdom to decide who lives or dies. We can barely get the whole Self Defense concept right.

-> Steve
 
''WE have no right, knowledge or nearly enough wisdom to decide who lives or dies. We can barely get the whole Self Defense concept right.''

thats why the doctors should stop playing god and let her die in peace. SHE IS DEAD. without the brain your dead and everyone knows it. I say put her out of her misery. my .02.
 
Originally posted by Celerity@Mar 22 2005, 03:54 PM
All of that was good, your point is made and I concede. I was wrong in my documents, and you were right.

The Tripoli document was a neat reference - Our first war with Muslims :)

My reference to the poignance of God in the US formation was broadened - What I (as well as others that make the same mistake) had in mind were founding words and phrases such as "In god we trust" and ".. under god, indivisible" These are seperate documents from our foundation bill of rights.

Even more general than money , I believe we can simplify this with a great thought that none of us should forget:

WE have no right, knowledge or nearly enough wisdom to decide who lives or dies. We can barely get the whole Self Defense concept right.

-> Steve
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True, very true. Nobody should have the right to make the ultimate judgment on another. That's what makes this situation so unbelievably sticky. In my personal opinion, they should let her go. She is suffering with no chance of getting any better.

Like a horse with a broken leg, she might be alive, but that's about it.
 
UPDATE ON THE CASE...AND SOME LIES.
ok i just heard that the Tampa judge wont let her be disconnected....
now for the lies or truth being revealed. The womans nurse said that 8 years ago Mrs. Shiavo started to pronaounce words and drinking on her own. Also that her husband would get mad when the nurse let Mrs Shiavo do that.
MY OPINION..either the parents paid the nurse to lie on her husband OR her husband is a real dick. SOMEONES LYING AND I THINK IT'S THE NURSE
 
Of course it's the nurse - she's a representative of the hospital, who's making buttloads of money off this miserable woman. Of course the medical majority will be on the side of the family, they're getting paid for every day she lives.
 
Originally posted by Battle Pope@Mar 22 2005, 05:32 PM
Of course it's the nurse - she's a representative of the hospital, who's making buttloads of money off this miserable woman. Of course the medical majority will be on the side of the family, they're getting paid for every day she lives.
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and i quote''it always comes down to money doesn't it'' <_<
 
Originally posted by Battle Pope@Mar 22 2005, 06:32 PM
Of course it's the nurse - she's a representative of the hospital, who's making buttloads of money off this miserable woman. Of course the medical majority will be on the side of the family, they're getting paid for every day she lives.
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Since I was raised by a registered nurse, this satement is utter bull shit. Nurses get paid jack shit, are on call 24/7, do a shit load more work then everyone typically thinks (no, they don't change bed pans, thats house keeping who graduated from highschool, where nurses go to college and get there BS in science, then go 2 more years to med school) and are pissed on by the hospital. They get zero compensation weather a pateint lives or dies, gets this surgery or that, of lives forever off a feeding tube or dies in a week.

Nurses save lives, their shift is not set to just 9-5, one mistake and death will follow, average salery for a Registered nurses -- $ 36,920 sourse

Telephone installers and repairers -- average salery $36,036 (also taken from the above link) A nurse, goes to school longer then the average telephone repair men, has a harder schedule, and results from errors are alot more serious.


So please, don't go off of what of what a typical nurse on scrubs tv show or your porn for what a nurse does and how "fluff" the job is.
 
bah, that link sucks.

Computer programmers -- $43,680

im a non-college graduate, and i make more than that. more so, i'm the lowest paid guy in my dept.

i'd say the average programmer payrate is 55-60k.
 
Originally posted by asmallsol+Mar 23 2005, 06:26 AM-->
asmallsol @ Mar 23 2005 said:
Battle Pope
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asmallsol @ Mar 23 2005 said:
@Mar 22 2005, 06:32 PM
Of course it's the nurse - she's a representative of the hospital, who's making buttloads of money off this miserable woman. Of course the medical majority will be on the side of the family, they're getting paid for every day she lives.
[post=477206]Quoted post[/post]​
Click to expand...


Since I was raised by a registered nurse, this satement is utter bull shit. Nurses get paid jack shit, are on call 24/7, do a shit load more work then everyone typically thinks (no, they don't change bed pans, thats house keeping who graduated from highschool, where nurses go to college and get there BS in science, then go 2 more years to med school) and are pissed on by the hospital. They get zero compensation weather a pateint lives or dies, gets this surgery or that, of lives forever off a feeding tube or dies in a week.

Nurses save lives, their shift is not set to just 9-5, one mistake and death will follow, average salery for a Registered nurses -- $ 36,920 sourse

Telephone installers and repairers -- average salery $36,036 (also taken from the above link) A nurse, goes to school longer then the average telephone repair men, has a harder schedule, and results from errors are alot more serious.


So please, don't go off of what of what a typical nurse on scrubs tv show or your porn for what a nurse does and how "fluff" the job is.
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Sorry to have offended you - I simply think that it makes sense. Why would the medical community support getting rid of her when there's still money to be had? I'm not saying it's just the nurses - I never was (although it sounded like it).
 
i used that one since it had multiple professions instead of just one. here is a better link, just for nurses

better sourse
and another one...
another sourse

in the past 4-5 years, the pay has been increasing becuase less and less women want to become nurses (aka a shortage) so they have raised the going rate. Still the average age for a nurse is near 50 (in 2000 it was 45.2 years old another sourse
 
so in 5 years the average age has increased by 5 years?
lol

sounds like no new nurses coming into the field...

and i think they offer 2 year programs for nursing...
2 years at med school after a bachelors is a joke...

but i def agree that nurses are underpaid...

but to get back on topic... if the hospital said to the nurse, either you tell them this story or you're fired i bet the nurse would say she started dancing on tables and jumping on her bed if thats what the hospital wanted...

medical industry is just as corrupt as any other...

edit, and going back to the original post...
Of course it's the nurse - she's a representative of the hospital, who's making buttloads of money off this miserable woman. Of course the medical majority will be on the side of the family, they're getting paid for every day she lives.
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he never implied nurses mad butt loads of money, he only said she was an employee of the hospital, and the hospital makes ass loads of money for everyday she is in their care...
 
Originally posted by reckedracing@Mar 23 2005, 09:30 AM
so in 5 years the average age has increased by 5 years?
lol

sounds like no new nurses coming into the field...

and i think they offer 2 year programs for nursing...
2 years at med school after a bachelors is a joke...

but i def agree that nurses are underpaid...

but to get back on topic... if the hospital said to the nurse, either you tell them this story or you're fired i bet the nurse would say she started dancing on tables and jumping on her bed if thats what the hospital wanted...

medical industry is just as corrupt as any other...

edit, and going back to the original post...
Of course it's the nurse - she's a representative of the hospital, who's making buttloads of money off this miserable woman. Of course the medical majority will be on the side of the family, they're getting paid for every day she lives.
Click to expand...

he never implied nurses mad butt loads of money, he only said she was an employee of the hospital, and the hospital makes ass loads of money for everyday she is in their care...
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Yeah, you can get an associate's degree to be a nurse but to be a well-paid CNA (Certified Nursing Aid or something) you need 6 years of schooling or so.
 
a Nursing aid and a RN are two total diffrent things. That is like saying a light service tech is the same thing as a master certified SAE technichtion.

nursing aid is 2 years of trade like school, Registered nurse = shit load of schooling.

but back on topic. the ruling to reinsert the feeding tube was denied. story
 
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