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another bigger problem

Discussion in 'General Tech and Maintenance' started by AaronrVegas, May 10, 2010.

  1. AaronrVegas

    AaronrVegas New Member

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    i tried so start my 91 accord today but no luck. everything was running find yesterday. when i put the key in and turn to acc the cd player and all lights come on. when i try to start it nothing happens. it kinda makes a sound like its trying to start but the motor doesnt turn at all. jump starting did not work. my roommate put the positive jumper cable on the battery and other on the starter and it didnt spark so he said its a bad starter.

    on another note

    when i got gas a little while back my car would not start when i got back in. i just let it sit for a while opened the hood and noticed the spark plug wire for the (what i think is the #2 cylinder, second from the left) had come out of the hole. i could not get it go back in. so the car just started up and i drove it home. it was running fine for a week or so after that. when i went to check the problem again every one of the plug wires has oil almost covering the top of the spark plugs. is that normal? the #2 plug appears to be bad. the top looks black while all other 3 tops look silver (what of the spark plug i can see when i take the wire off) all of the holes appear to have debris in them.

    i am new to working on cars so please explain things in very simplified terms. also i can take pictures if needed. i live in las vegas. if there is anyone very knowledgeable living close i might be able to compensate you for your time if you would check it out for me.

    thanks in advance
     
  2. f22b1 coupe

    f22b1 coupe Junior Member

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    Yeah I wouldn't trust jumping from the battery to the starter unless this guy was an electrical engineer. I myself do not know enough to attempt that but I wouldn't replace a $200 part unless I had taken it off and had auto zone test it (highly recommended).

    Btw that was cylinder #3- Honda 4 cylinders are labeled like this it you are standing in front of the car looking down into the engine bay: [transmission]4|3|2|1 [timing belt/drive belts]

    As for oil around the plugs, that is extremely common when the valve cover gasket set goes, namely the tube seals. Basically, the valve cover (Thing that says "Honda Motor Company 16 Valves") has rubber seals in it so that oil doesn't leak past the head/valve cover mating surfaces. There are round rubber seals around the spark plug tubes and when they wear out, your plug wires start swimming in oil. If you buy a valve cover gasket SET (just the valve cover gasket doesn't include the tube seals) you can replace the seals with a 10mm wrench/ratchet. Just be careful you don't over tighten the cover.

    On another note, you need to use permatex grey or HondaBond HT(available from Honda dealers, both ATV/motorcycle dealers and car dealers) and squirt a small bead out in the 4 corners on the head/valve cover mating surfaces:

    http://www.filtsai.com/accord/valve_cover_gasket/rtv_corners.jpg

    I would put it on the head, not the valve cover gasket though. Same idea- where the sharp corners are, put the RTV silicone.

    It is possible that your plugs/plug wires were ruined by this and aren't firing, but somewhat unlikely. Do the valve cover gasket before you try the new wires, oil makes the wires swell bigtime and come apart. As for the plugs, its unlikely they burned out, but they could be getting covered with oil internally from leaky valve guide seals. If you pull them and the electrode (tip of plug) is covered, spray all the plugs with brake cleaner to get the oil dried up and then try to run it again. I had a car that I let sit for a week and the valve guides were so bad enough oil ran down the guides to coat the plugs and keep them from firing.

    "Won't start" problems are divided into two categories: 1) car just clicks (Starter not engaging) and 2) car cranks (starter is engaging) but it just won't actually start up and stay running (fuel or spark problem).

    I'll go on what you said with the not starting problem. Fortunately auto zone can test batteries and starters both, so I would take both of those in just in case. Next on the list is the main relay (has ignition relay built into a conglomerate relay for the ignition, starter, and fuel pump). If that doesn't take care of it, you're looking at a switch, ECU, or wiring, but those last few are extremely unlikely.

    Then if my chance your problem has been cranking but not starting, it could b the main relay (fuel pump or ignition part of relay) not working, or something related to the distributor/ignition system (ie coil, ignition module, cam sensor).

    But that's my advice from where you're at. Get a 12mm and 14mm and get that starter off of there and have it tested if the battery tests fine, then from there main relay is the next major suspect. If it won't even crank, the oil/valve cover/spark plug problem is unrelated. However, if you fix the "no cranking" problem and it cranks, but then won't start, NOW it's time to look at the ignition system.
     
  3. nootrac22

    nootrac22 Well-Known Member VIP

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    Also those cars will have problems with the distributer.
     
  4. civichatch1988

    civichatch1988 Ef hatch

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    Yeah they do have issues with the distributer, I agree with f22b, doesn't sound like anything major sounds to me like the starter is your first problem and I would get the oil leak fixed these f22 are known for bad distributers and oil leaks
     
  5. AaronrVegas

    AaronrVegas New Member

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    f22 i really really appreciate your long detailed post. i know you spent a lot of time thinking about that and typing it out. i know i am a new member so i want you to know i do really thank you for spending your time (this post and my other) trying to help me out.

    ok so the deal is this. now i feel like a moron. after determining that it was probably the starter i followed the haynes manual steps for removing it. after doing step 2 and removing teh electrical connections i saw that there was a small wire that appeared to have come out of the starter. i put it back in tightened the nut down and reconnect the neg on battery and it fired up. i started it 3 times to make sure. waiting a few minutes in between starts.

    so after that i went down to autozone to get the starter/alternator/battery tested. so i get there and the guy who helped me the 1st time was not available. so this other guy tested my stuff for me. now i am a pretty loyal autozone shopper. its pretty much the only auto store i have every shopped at the few times i needed car parts. but this time was a disaster. first the guy tried to connect to the negative battery terminal. it was a little loose i guess because i didnt tighten it down. so he tells me i need a new terminal. he proceeds to remove the negative terminal turn it upside down and hammer it onto the neg battery connection with one of the jumper clamps from the testing maching IMMEDIATELY AFTER I SAY I HAVE A SOCKET SET IN MY CAR WAIT A SECOND!!! i didnt realize how fucked up it was until i got home and opened teh hood again. he marred up the negative terminal really good. it works fine after i cleaned it up and shit but fuck why would he do that to a customers car? then he proceeds to basically red line the engine while doing the alternator test. which says to do at 2k rpm btw. so for this trip to autozone i was very dissatisfied.

    the guy who seemed knowledgeable at autozone said the same thing about the vavle cover. i found a thread late last night after this post about changing the head gasket i guesss is what the gasket is called. ENG: F22 Spark Plug Tube Seal Replacement - CB7Tuner Forums

    so it starts up fine now. i think the little red wire was the problem. i was so freaking out about this too lol and it was totally minor problem ( as far as i know as of right now)

    also f22 i am going to post in my other thread about the turn signal relay.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. caboose

    caboose USDM to the bone

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    I wouldn't rule the starter out yet. Those starters are known for going out too. When mine went it died a slow death... so you might find that it will only work sometimes until eventually it won't start at all.
     
  7. caboose

    caboose USDM to the bone

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    also, when checking to see if a spark plug is good, you need to unscrew it out of the head. Here's a basic diagram to diagnose your sparkplugs.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. f22b1 coupe

    f22b1 coupe Junior Member

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    No problem, I am glad you have an appreciation for my time, not many new people "get it" but you respect people on forums as much as you would in real life :thumbsup:

    Anyway, when you email a complaint to a corporate store like auto zone, they take it very seriously, and it goes from the top down, meaning the regional manager reviews it sometimes, then the store manager gets a strongly worded email with your attached, and with the pressure on him, he passes it down to employee x who screwed up and made the store look bad. Well, maybe not in all cases but that is generally how it goes.

    That being said, don't discount the power of taking the time to hammer out an email on auto zone's site and make sure that incompetent careless prick gets what he has coming, whatever that may be. That really does sound like unacceptable conduct- a lot of guys look at older cars like out early-mid 90's accords and think they are "beater" or "junk" cars, and don't treat other people's things with care and respect. A well articulated email would probably make a difference and possibly score you some sort of compensation. However, of course this guy could still kep his job, and if you go there often... AWKWARD! So that one is up to you, but the turnover rate is so high in that business I can't imagine they put up with very much crap at all out of someone who is probably new to begin with.

    Back to the car problem, so how did that little wore (the 8mm nut I presume?) get disconnected in the first place? As for your other thread, I will skip over there now :)
     
  9. AaronrVegas

    AaronrVegas New Member

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    thats just the type of person i am :)

    that does sound like a good idea to write them an email explaining what happened. i am not a prick or anything i dont want the guy to get fired. i dont even want compensation because the battery is not expensive and it still functions, althought i dont know if that will have long term effect on the battery post.

    also appreciate the leg work finding the diagrams and stuff. i dont know where to look for that type of stuff. it would be nice if i could find a picture of the relays and stuff so i dont have to take out anything i dont need to. and thanks for the tip on the relay. i have the packaging and teh receipt still and they guy said could bring it back if it was wrong.

    actually when i removed the ground wire there was a just a small red wire with a kind of L shaped end on it that had come out of a plug on the starter. i just plugged it back in and connected the neg and then neg on battery and started her up. im not 100% sure but it was either a 8mm or 10mm nut on the ground wire.

    thanks for the pics caboose. i just went ahead and bought 4 new NGK plugs. they were only $10 for all 4. bought new plug wires too. i will keep in mind if she has trouble starting again thanks.

    i got all teh parts for the valve replacement. the kit went up to $24. all new seals for the plugs and head i think. idk the techincal terms but i could point it out to you. should i start a new thread for that if i cant find all teh info i need? is this the correct forum?
     
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