Anyone else see a problem with this?

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Well the last part is true but why when it is made legal would someone in the market for previously illegal drugs all of the sudden have a problem buying from that same "thug on the street" theyve been buying from for years. If prices dropped all around he would still be making money as his supply cost would be down and he could still make a profit easier than a legit job. Just saying legalizing drugs would not solve that particular problem. Especially since as I stated the big gangs not to be confused with "kiddy gangs selling on a street corner" are moving to bigger better things with less need to secure territory through violence.
 
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klyph said:
Gangs cannot operate as efficiently as legitimate business, also, clients would prefer buying from a reputable, safe place than some thug on the street. The gangs would be driven out of business, and without financial incentive, their numbers would dwindle. The reason why this approach isn't taken, is because the number of law enforcement officials and agencies would also dwindle due to the lack of their necessity. The reason these agencies take their "anti-drug" stance is not for public safety, it's for job security.
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Funny, the mafia has operated profitably for many years in both legal and illegal businesses. Responsible for estimates as high as 85-90% of the transportation of domestic good.

...but a gang cannot operate as efficiently as legitimate business.

Nice to know that you're spot on with your all encompassing knowledge.
 
totalburnout said:
Funny, the mafia has operated profitably for many years in both legal and illegal businesses. Responsible for estimates as high as 85-90% of the transportation of domestic good.

...but a gang cannot operate as efficiently as legitimate business.

Nice to know that you're spot on with your all encompassing knowledge.
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The mafia also has a solid leadership structure. The Crips in LA do not talk to the Crips in Miami. The mafia also has clearly defined goals that are well known through the organization. And the mafia does not generally kill its customers on a whim or deal in a dark alley. You cannot compare the Mob with street gangs as they currently stand.
 
Drake said:
You cannot compare the Mob with street gangs as they currently stand.
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And that's why I've been trying to point out this thread was about MCs not the other types. I would liken them more to the mob than a kiddy street corner gang. They communicate chapter to chapter across the country and too have known goals across the club. Either way, to re-itterate my point, not necessarily anyone else's; Legalizing drugs will NOT solve MCs and the downfalls that accompany them.
 
double0Si said:
And that's why I've been trying to point out this thread was about MCs not the other types. I would liken them more to the mob than a kiddy street corner gang. They communicate chapter to chapter across the country and too have known goals across the club. Either way, to re-itterate my point, not necessarily anyone else's; Legalizing drugs will NOT solve MCs and the downfalls that accompany them.
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Mostly because of the drugs they deal in. I would say 90% of MC drug money comes from the production and distribution of meth. If in fact any drugs are ever made legal, I highly doubt meth and crack will fall into these categories. Their production will still occur however and they will still be illegal.

But I argee that MCs are more organized than your average street gang. Generally speaking, MC violence is more business oriented than "Hey I'm a Pagan, you're a Hells Angel, bam." That violence happens, don't misunderstand me. But on a much less frequent occurrance.

There were 9 gang related shooting in Jersey City the night Infamous(The Biggie Smalls movie) came out. I highly doubt there were any shootings nationwide the night the Sons of Anarchy series premeired. Street gangs are more emotional "organizations". You can go out shooting with no reprocussions. MCs are more organized with more member checks and balances.
 
Drake said:
The mafia also has a solid leadership structure. The Crips in LA do not talk to the Crips in Miami. The mafia also has clearly defined goals that are well known through the organization. And the mafia does not generally kill its customers on a whim or deal in a dark alley. You cannot compare the Mob with street gangs as they currently stand.
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It's ok TB will bring in whatever off-topic he needs to "win" an argument, veiling it in insult to inflate his ego. It doesn't matter that I was specifically referring to street thug gangsters, the european originated mafia is a perfectly good substitute to prove me wrong. Plus, as TB points out, most of the mafia's money is made through legitimate business :rolleyes:

And yes, even crack heads who buy from thugs would prefer to get it at a clinic, or secure site, because even they realize that they have to risk their lives whenever they need to score. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. If it's not illegal, the price plummets and the supply is readily available, dealers will be on par with the ice cream man, financially. You want to solve the ganng problem? Run them out of business. It's pretty fucking basic economics.
 
klyph said:
It's ok TB will bring in whatever off-topic he needs to "win" an argument, veiling it in insult to inflate his ego. It doesn't matter that I was specifically referring to street thug gangsters, the european originated mafia is a perfectly good substitute to prove me wrong. Plus, as TB points out, most of the mafia's money is made through legitimate business :rolleyes:

And yes, even crack heads who buy from thugs would prefer to get it at a clinic, or secure site, because even they realize that they have to risk their lives whenever they need to score. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. If it's not illegal, the price plummets and the supply is readily available, dealers will be on par with the ice cream man, financially. You want to solve the ganng problem? Run them out of business. It's pretty fucking basic economics.
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1) I did not say "most" of the mafia's money was made through legitimate business. I do not have a copy of their balance sheet to know the percentage breakdown.
2) Plenty of money is made legitimately. Look where the mafia has invested its money to see where the mafia is currently making legitimate money. There's plenty of mob money that legitimately bought shares in Fortune 500 businesses. There's plenty of mob money that bought real estate all over the world.

...but, you knew this when you started spouting off, because you're the type of dude.

And yes, many street gangs can be likened to the mafia. This is 2009. Its not 1970 where gangs weren't organized. The idea woven throughout this entire thread is that gangs are organized to the point that even as they are penetrated by law enforcement, they overcome and grow stronger.

Your "street gangs". I.e., the bloods and crips, aren't run from the streets anymore. They are run from mansions. The people in these mansions run seemingly normal lives, also have legitimate businesses, and conduct international business. Look beyond the obvious.
 
And once these street level dealers are no longer making money, what do you think will happen to the "godfathers"? Maybe you should focus more on the obvious.
 
Again (whats this the tenth time) Back to the ORIGINAL point, you take out the head of a MC and it just evolves and flourishes. Changing the standing on drugs MAY help A problem, but not THE problem brought up in the very first post. I believe this is because the old higher ups thoughts on how to make money (ie: Drug sales) are being replaced by the fresh ideas of the new, younger, possibly smarter guys that take over who realize there are better/safer ways to make even more money.

Replace an old head with a new one that thinks, acts, and talks just the same as the previous one and there will be no progression eventually leading to its demise. Obviously this is not the case.

klyph said:
Legalize drugs. Problem solved.
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Could it help the problem? Maybe. Will it solve the problem? NO(period)
 
The people are not the problem. The system is the problem. That is the point I was trying to make, and the reason why you can jail millions of people, and not solve a damn thing.
 
So do you then need to legalize murder, racqueteering, extorsion, bribery, and whatever else they do? Or send them to some Rehab for being a criminal course? What do you have a problem with? What they're selling or how they go about their business. If its the latter then the point again is less validated due to the fact that drugs are not their only business. Again it could help but not SOLVE the problem.
 
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No, just drugs. None of the other things you list are nearly as profitable, nor do they cause nearly the amount of problems that drug prohibition causes. They could also be much more easily managed, as the gangs would have a far diminished financial reserve, thus limiting their capabilities.
 
klyph said:
And once these street level dealers are no longer making money, what do you think will happen to the "godfathers"? Maybe you should focus more on the obvious.
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...because a system of legalization will not stop the struggle for market share, nothing will change for the street level.
 
Yes, it would. If you can't understand something that obvious, no one can help you.

Are you being sarcastic? I hope so, but it doesn't seem like it.
 
Alcohol is deadly enough we do not need to make cocaine or any other hard drugs legal as well. It will prompt people to think drugs are perfectly fine, just like they do alcohol (which is a very deadly drug. There are 3 drugs you can die just from withdrawing from thatare: alcohol, meth, and heroin. I highly doubt that crack, meth or heroin would be legal in the category's because of how heavily addictive they are. You do one line of coke even on your first try youcan die, it is medically proven and I've had many a friends die from cocaine overdoses. At one point I had 2 of my buddies die in 1month. I'm not up for burying more people in my life due to "legalized drugs".
 
89' Project Civic said:
Alcohol is deadly enough we do not need to make cocaine or any other hard drugs legal as well. It will prompt people to think drugs are perfectly fine, just like they do alcohol (which is a very deadly drug. There are 3 drugs you can die just from withdrawing from thatare: alcohol, meth, and heroin. I highly doubt that crack, meth or heroin would be legal in the category's because of how heavily addictive they are. You do one line of coke even on your first try youcan die, it is medically proven and I've had many a friends die from cocaine overdoses. At one point I had 2 of my buddies die in 1month. I'm not up for burying more people in my life due to "legalized drugs".
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Darwinism. You can't protect people from themselves. If someone's dumb enough to kill themselves with drugs, the world is better off without them. They're not taking out anyone with them, and if they are, it was that persons decision to do it as well. The reason we have so many cracked out bums and welfare moms is because soft hearted fools keep giving them handouts, which only exacerbates the situation, and makes more people go the route of the "helpless victim" because they know someone will take care of them.

EVERY PROBLEM IN OUR SOCIETY CAN BE TRACED DIRECTLY TO A COMPLETE LACK OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

There might be some that aren't but I sure can't think of any.
 
Addiction has NOTHING to do with being irresponsible. It has mostly to do with a mental disorder, would you goto a relative that had cancer and say "fuck you, your better off dead because you arn't worth living anymore?, I hope not. So what is the difference between cancer and addiction, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!.
 
89' Project Civic said:
Addiction has NOTHING to do with being irresponsible. It has mostly to do with a mental disorder, would you goto a relative that had cancer and say "fuck you, your better off dead because you arn't worth living anymore?, I hope not. So what is the difference between cancer and addiction, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!.
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BULLSHIT!!!!!

addiction has everything to do with being irresponsible, weak willed, and having a complete lack of impulse control

i refuse to feel bad for people who are in situations because of their own choices and actions

if someone dies of lung cancer because they chose to smoke for 50+ years, knowing the health risks...
if someone is dieing of diabetes and other weight related health issues, because they refuse to take care of themselves even after they have been hospitalized on multiple occasions...
if someone drinks themselves retarded and kills themselves driving off the road and wrapping their car around a tree...
someone who is withering away on a pill addiction, that they have already lost a gal bladder to, along with losing a few jobs, their car, most of their friends and the better part of their family over

i will not feel bad for them, they will receive none of my sympathy while they are here, and i will not morn them or feel remorse when they are gone

they chose to smoke
they chose to take 0 care of themselves
they chose to drink and drive
they chose to pop pills

these situations are not the same as:
a healthy, active woman who develops breast cancer
a child who develops type-1 diabetes
someone who loses a leg in an accident when a drunk driver runs into her car
someone who develops a health condition due to an allergic reaction to a medication

these people are in a situation that was not a result of their own poor choices
 
Point granted, but I believe you should do some more research on addiction. Sure people choose to take that first drink or drug. Who doesn't drink at 19 or their whole life for that matter?. Once you have a drink and if alcoholism is in your genes, you are 4x more likely to inherit the DISEASE of addiction. I know when I started drinking I didn't drink heavily for 2 years then I was already screwed by that point, then alcohol led me to drugs and shit. I am off everything now for 3months and couldn't be happier though. I'm saying it's not like you wake up and say to yourself "hey I think being an alcoholic would be a great life for the rest of my life". Hell no!. It is a progressive DISEASE that you develop and don't even realize. My point is stated so I will allow anyone to share their opinion that they rightfully have.
 
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