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Anyone using 404's with CTR's in an LS

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by gocivicls, Apr 14, 2004.

  1. gocivicls

    gocivicls Senior Member

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    I have been running some pretty good #'s with my All Motor LS. 8.70's to 8.90's consitantly in the 1/8th. I sold my Bullfrog Stage 2 cams and Matching valve springs and purchased Crower 404's with valvesprings. Now I am just curious on how the bigger cams will effect me.

    I have been running 79 to 81 mph depending on the track and the conditions.........Do you guys think I will see 82 to 83 mph and maybe some 8.5's??
     
  2. sohcslammer

    sohcslammer Senior Member

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    Bigger is only better if you have the compression to take advantage of it. What pistons are you running? And no one can tell you how much faster it will be in trap speed. there are too many variables.

    Edit : sorry, I didn't read your whole title of the thread at first. With the CTRs you should be at 12.x:1 c/r. That is PLENTY high to take advantage of the 404s. I have heard that they are not that bad around town really. So, yes, in your case bigger is better and you will see more power out of the 404s. Your problem will be taking advasntage of the whole power band. If I'm not mistaken, the 404s make power up to 9k or more. Even with the rev limiter removed, your rods are only good till 8500 revs at most, asuming you still have the stock LS rods. You should get a good valvetrain and replace your rods and I don't see why 200whp is out of the question....
     
  3. StyleTEG

    StyleTEG Senior Member

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    12:1 CR is way to high for 404's

    More is not always better, especially concerning compression. There is more too it than just run as high as you can with out detonating.

    Increasing compression increases cranking pressure. How much cranking pressure is increased, depends on how much the cam has the intake valve open after bottom dead center (power stroke). Since the intake valve is open, some compression is bled back out of the valve. Cams with more lift and duration have the valve open more, longer. So the more aggressive your cams are, the more aggressive your compression has to be.

    The trick is to get in the sweet spot of about 25% increase in cranking pressure. Any higher than that, you are going to start blunting your high end power due to the increase in resistance/paracidic loss.

    For the 404s, 11.5 - 11.6:1 is about a 25% increase.
     
  4. gocivicls

    gocivicls Senior Member

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    My CR is around 11.4 to 11.7 not 12.x....................And I have a Skunk 2 mani, ECU upgade and Straight exh. from the 4 to 1 DC to my Tanabe RM.

    The Stage 2's just lost power at around 7800 and I want to go to 8500. My rods have been shotpeened and resized with ARP rod bolts. My car has seen 8.2k since I rebuilt and a couple of 8.5k passes. I just noticed the cams had no more after 7.8k so now I am going bigger.

    Thanx!!!!!!!
     
  5. vtecsir1

    vtecsir1 Senior Member

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    my buddy has 404's with b16 pistons in his ls motor and its pretty mean through the whole power band.
     
  6. StyleTEG

    StyleTEG Senior Member

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    Stick to the 11.4 - 11.7:1 CR then.
     
  7. gocivicls

    gocivicls Senior Member

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    I would still like to hear from anyone with this or a similar setup!!!!! :D
     
  8. gocivicls

    gocivicls Senior Member

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    I put them in last night..............both cam gears at 0 degrees. I am kinda disapointed. I know you can not tell by the seat of your pants, but man it feels slower!!!
     
  9. StyleTEG

    StyleTEG Senior Member

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    There is no need.

    Dynamic compression is a mathmatical formula. 25% increase is a proven strategy.

    You can hear someone say "it be da faster yo!" , but its still blunting there high end power if you go over that amount.
     
  10. 97CTR

    97CTR Senior Member

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    To really get the full potential of those cams you need to tune. What are you running for engine managament?
     
  11. h22bubbleback

    h22bubbleback Senior Member

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    :withstupid: u cant expect to throw cams in w/o tuning and expect to see a differnce....if u were happy with the skunk2's and runnin good times with 'em, then u should of stuck with them and dropped the money elsewhere...like setting up an ls/vtec or P&P that LS head which flows like crap
     
  12. gocivicls

    gocivicls Senior Member

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    This is one reason why I don't post here anymore.................I don't want to hear any gripping. And if you read the entire post you would see, that I wasn't happy with the stage 2 cams...........And for the "Skunk2" comment??? WTF??? Who the hell mentioned them, they don't even make Skunk2 cams for the LS!!!!

    Bottom line is I put in Cams that match the modifications I have done!!!! I should have put these in to begin with, but I already had the Stage 2 Bullfrogs, so I tried them. Big Deal!!!! Now All I wanted was some response from the "LS" owners who have run 404's with a High Compression Non-Vtec power plant. That is it!!!!!

    QUOTE:(h22bubbleback) u cant expect to throw cams in w/o tuning and expect to see a difference....if u were happy with the......

    You must think I am a dumbass!!!! There is a difference smart guy!!!! Not as much in the lower rpm range, but yes I will tune it or get it tuned and Find out the full pot. of this setup!!! BTW I don't take advise from kids who still live with their parents!!! LOL!!!!!!!!! :D
     
  13. gocivicls

    gocivicls Senior Member

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    This was a low budget build from the beginning..........I am running a Custom EPROM similar to Mugen Spec with a S-AFC!!!

    I have got it dialed in, now just waiting til I get a chance to go the P1-Auto to get it tuned. They are the best around this area, I hear!!! :p
     
  14. 97CTR

    97CTR Senior Member

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    So you haven't been to a dyno yet? Just the good ole butt dyno. I think that with your setup once you have it tuned you will be much happier and see alot more power than you are now. You will be able to tell for real after you take it to the track.
     
  15. gocivicls

    gocivicls Senior Member

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    We will see, thanx!!!
     
  16. fakthepolice

    fakthepolice Senior Member

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    h22bubbleback
    your a moron
    :nobreed:
     
  17. erebunicrx

    erebunicrx my name is Dale

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    maybe you schould try changeing the cams gears to a different timing mark to get a little more out of the cams.ex. i-2, e-2.get that bitch on a real dyno while your doing this.

    i am about to do the same motor in my crx only with p30's so i curious to see what your putting down.
     
  18. JDMilan

    JDMilan Senior Member

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    push it real good
     
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