Franknstein
Member
Is the Apexi SAFC any good to run a turbo D16A7 SOHC non-vtec? Will I need a missing link check valve?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Apexi SAFC
- Thread starter Franknstein
- Start date
- Replies 15
- Views 2K
We may earn a small commission from affiliate links and paid advertisements. Terms
Franknstein
Member
Cool, is it a good unit though? Anything else that you would recommend that's better at a similar price?
Franknstein
Member
where can I find some info on this unit? Searched in Google and it reckons I spelt "under" wrong...?
beerbongskickass
Senior Member
Franknstein
Member
THANKS!
Franknstein
Member
Okay, finally got some time to read more about Uberdata.... looks a little complex... not the theory... but more the tools you need to do it. Rom burners etc.etc.... Surely this is an expensive way of doing it?
hardly much more.
fmu = 125-200
mising link = 50
pump -100
uber- software- free
laptop, assumes you already have one
chips, $5
burner- 179 for the pocket programmer
$50 dsm 450cc injectors
$10 resistor box
$100 pump
+ dyno time for either
its hardly more expensive....
and will give you a much bettter tune, more power, and more reliability.
fmu = 125-200
mising link = 50
pump -100
uber- software- free
laptop, assumes you already have one
chips, $5
burner- 179 for the pocket programmer
$50 dsm 450cc injectors
$10 resistor box
$100 pump
+ dyno time for either
its hardly more expensive....
and will give you a much bettter tune, more power, and more reliability.
[Freemantle]
Senior Member
And you dont need a laptop. Any PC that can run solitare will work, but you won't be able to datalog on the road.
You can pick up a 3 year old laptop from any nearby community college for about $100 in their auctions. I just got one for myself.
You can pick up a 3 year old laptop from any nearby community college for about $100 in their auctions. I just got one for myself.
Franknstein
Member
Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Aug 24 2004, 09:42 AM
hardly much more.
fmu = 125-200
mising link = 50
pump -100
uber- software- free
laptop, assumes you already have one
chips, $5
burner- 179 for the pocket programmer
$50 dsm 450cc injectors
$10 resistor box
$100 pump
+ dyno time for either
its hardly more expensive....
and will give you a much bettter tune, more power, and more reliability.
[post=380944]Quoted post[/post]
Why will this method give more power, reliability etc. What makes this system any better than off-the shelf management? Is it because it uses the stock honda box as a base?
no, its because it allows you to make fuel and ignition maps for your EXACT setup so its tuned perfectly.
an fmu simply dumps 12 more psi of fuel pressure (in a 12:1 fmu) into the rail per psi of boost.
1 psi from a t25 will require much less fuel than 1 psi from a t3/t4.
the t25 will run rich, the t3/t4 will run leaner.
fmu's were developed for carberated motors- not efi motors. we have computers to control our engine- why not use it instead of falling back on 1960's technology.
an fmu simply dumps 12 more psi of fuel pressure (in a 12:1 fmu) into the rail per psi of boost.
1 psi from a t25 will require much less fuel than 1 psi from a t3/t4.
the t25 will run rich, the t3/t4 will run leaner.
fmu's were developed for carberated motors- not efi motors. we have computers to control our engine- why not use it instead of falling back on 1960's technology.
[Freemantle]
Senior Member
I invested in it more for the timing issue than anything. Running proper timing and proper fuel reduces end-gas, and thusly reducing exhaust gas temperatures. This means your exhaust valves/ports/manifold/turbo all remain cooler, meaning more power.
I don't know why this isnt a more common thought among tuners, but less heat always means more power. It is concievable that you could make 400 horsepower out of your setup with the twist of a screw, but removing the heat from that 400 horsepower is what all the other modifications are about. You will run a larger intercooler, precise timing and fuel, and perfectly honed plumbing all for the sake of heat reduction (be it eliminating end-gas, stopping lean conditions, preventing headloss and turbulence, or decreasing the heat/compression ratio of your system).
Think about it, by controling when the burn starts, you can actually change your AFR by burning the mixture more completely. The heat benifits from this, namely beingable to squeeze under a lower preignition threshold (i.e. pump gas) while running higher effective compression, are keys that will turn your "10psi" into a lot more than the other guy's "10 psi".
With anything else, you leave the ignition tables as they were from the factory. You now depend on the durability of your components to perform well beyond their specifications. Japaneese automobiles have been known to be over-engineered, but were not designed anywhere near the conditions they will have to endure. Here in tuner-land, we call that reliability. In my honest opinion, you would enjoy your vehicle more if you believed in your tuning more than you relied on the engineering of your 10+ year old engine.
I don't know why this isnt a more common thought among tuners, but less heat always means more power. It is concievable that you could make 400 horsepower out of your setup with the twist of a screw, but removing the heat from that 400 horsepower is what all the other modifications are about. You will run a larger intercooler, precise timing and fuel, and perfectly honed plumbing all for the sake of heat reduction (be it eliminating end-gas, stopping lean conditions, preventing headloss and turbulence, or decreasing the heat/compression ratio of your system).
Think about it, by controling when the burn starts, you can actually change your AFR by burning the mixture more completely. The heat benifits from this, namely beingable to squeeze under a lower preignition threshold (i.e. pump gas) while running higher effective compression, are keys that will turn your "10psi" into a lot more than the other guy's "10 psi".
With anything else, you leave the ignition tables as they were from the factory. You now depend on the durability of your components to perform well beyond their specifications. Japaneese automobiles have been known to be over-engineered, but were not designed anywhere near the conditions they will have to endure. Here in tuner-land, we call that reliability. In my honest opinion, you would enjoy your vehicle more if you believed in your tuning more than you relied on the engineering of your 10+ year old engine.
Franknstein
Member
Guys.. dont get me wrong, I'm all for proper fuel management... it obviously makes more sense. I'm currently running a full fuel and timing management box which I will use once I've bolted my turbo on. I think I misunderstand the Apexi though... it obviously works hand-in-hand with an adjustable FPR or something based on what you guys are saying. The reason why I opened this thread though is because I'm not too sure about the testing/quality and longevity of my current system and would like to research better engine management systems that have been applied to Honda specifically (as mine is based on a VW/ALFA from design).
That's basically why I asked why Uberdata is your choice out of all of them. I love the whole idea of it.. the way that there are no secrets behind the workings of it, and its completely 100% tuneable etc etc. but is it superior to say a Microtech, Motec? Also, how user friendly are the concepts and especially the tuning software... because none of my local tuners would know about Uberdata, so I would have to ask them to learn it or something...
That's basically why I asked why Uberdata is your choice out of all of them. I love the whole idea of it.. the way that there are no secrets behind the workings of it, and its completely 100% tuneable etc etc. but is it superior to say a Microtech, Motec? Also, how user friendly are the concepts and especially the tuning software... because none of my local tuners would know about Uberdata, so I would have to ask them to learn it or something...
superior?> not a chance. those systems costs 1500-2000 US dollars, and some require the entire car to be re-wired.
but is it practical? in my opinion no.
its been said- no ecu will start a honda like a honda ecu.
and thats what uber/hon data have both done- use the factory ecu- and make it programable.
but is it practical? in my opinion no.
its been said- no ecu will start a honda like a honda ecu.
and thats what uber/hon data have both done- use the factory ecu- and make it programable.