Are we ALONE?

What are your opinions

  • yes...there are to many stars with planets, and some planets can produce life...and intellegence.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • not sure....Scully keeps Moulder in the dark!!! Lucky baste

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    67

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i didn;t waste my school's bandwidth for 2.5 years on SETI for nothing.

edit- page 5 :owned:
 
Originally posted by pissedoffsol@Nov 21 2003, 01:11 AM
i didn;t waste my school's bandwidth for 2.5 years on SETI for nothing.

edit- page 5 :owned:

shit all my dad does on his computer is seti. hes obsessed, been doing it for a long ass time. since before the pentium 2 xeon came out, dont know how long ago that is but its a long ass time.
 
Originally posted by GSRCRXsi+Nov 21 2003, 01:29 AM-->
pissedoffsol
@Nov 21 2003, 01:11 AM
i didn;t waste my school's bandwidth for 2.5 years on SETI for nothing.

edit- page 5 :owned:

shit all my dad does on his computer is seti. hes obsessed, been doing it for a long ass time. since before the pentium 2 xeon came out, dont know how long ago that is but its a long ass time.

my ex's step-dad did it too... talk about wide wide area networking. all the pcs in the world running that program.... must be a huge crunch for them.
 
I just read this entire post... Man, there's some interesting stuff in here, and I SO agree with 90% of the evolutionists here.

I think there is SOMETHING that started everything out. I dunno if it's name is God, or Lucy, or even Earl. Who knows. What I do believe in is the fact that everything was started and just developed, like God tipped the first domino on a HUGE table with domino's set up randomly everywhere. Many strains went on growing faster and faster, but many of them (dinosaurs, dodo, etc) didn't play out, and the last domino fell for that strain.

I hope that makes sense.

Anyway, something that put a unique thought into my head was the person saying God is the creator of OUR planet's system. Who is to say that there isn't a "God" for every planet inhabited by intelligent life? That would absolutely blow my mind. SUCH an interesting thought.



On subject:
As far as the alien argument. Yes, I think there is life elsewhere in the universe, and that we have been discovered and visited, possibly as far as GUIDED by one, maybe multiple races of being with origins from off this planet.

For the record. I think this is THE greatest subject matter ever discussed on Hondaswap, and definitely is bringing out the best in all the posters herein.

Please, by all means, continue. I've enjoyed the last 30 minutes of reading MUCH more than anything else I've seen on the web tonight. :thumbsup:
 
I've been running seti since 1996 and now with so many people doing it the seti team has a surplus of users and note enough data to send out. SO they are now able to resend out work units that have been found to be unique for futher investigation which is really cool.

and I'm very glad to see this debate actually stayed on topic and didn't turn into a post whore's nightmare.
 
well, i have to place my vote for God.

the question i have is this:

If humans evolved from chimpanzee's, why are there still chimpanzee's?

if evolution is in control of this, what's to say we couldn't have evolved from fish?

i just think that the evolution theory is way to random, and has too many holes in it..

now, I think we may have evolved, but not from apes, from the first humanoid creatures, like chro-magnan, neaderthal's...

looking at it that way, it is way more believeable that we have come from them, as it would take A LONG time to evolve from a 3 ft tall ape to where we are now.

now, to say that we evolved from an earlier form of man, to me , is a little more feasible..

but, i think that earlest form of man was created by god, not from amoebas randomly splitting and mutating into humans... our bodies' systems are WAY to complicated to have happened on accident

sorry if i offended anyone, but i think my outlook may be a LITTLE different.
 
Originally posted by EGLSHB@Nov 21 2003, 09:39 AM
i just think that the evolution theory is way to random, and has too many holes in it..

and the god theory doesn't? I mean, its a story founded by NO fact whatsoever.

not tryign to start a religious fight... its just that, you shun eveolution saying its facts aren't complete, but yet, the bible is no more than an Aesop's fable- a bunch of storys put together to teach a lesson...

some people jsut happen to worship the characters in it.

again, not starting a religious battle- but to those like the budhists and athesits, its JUST a book, and contains NO hard fact.

has or can Abraham, Adam, or Eve be traced geneologically? if it COULD it hasn't been done yet.

if we all came from 1 couple- adam and eve... how come as you go up the family tree, it gets BIGGER exponentially, not smaller.
 
i agree with you too...

i do not buy into the adam & eve story either, as that wouldn't allow for all the races of the world..

what i am saying is this, i don't think we evolved from protozoa.

i believe we evolved from an earlier form of humans, but not from "chaos"

do you get my meaning...

also, i have not had such a peninsular upbringing to think that we are alone in the universe..

the odds are stacked heavily against Earth being the only planet in the universe able to support life..

and am not a bible-thumping holy-roller either... i believe that the bible is BASED on the truth, but thru the thousands of years, it has been translated and interpreted so many different ways that there is no way of knowing what it originally had to say.

What I would like to see, is a version of the bible that is translated DIRECTLY from Aramaic to english. Like find me an original copy, and translate it to good old English, without first having to translate it to latin, hebrew, ETC./

i think it would have a whole new spin on it.
 
Originally posted by EGLSHB@Nov 21 2003, 10:09 AM
what i am saying is this, i don't think we evolved from protozoa.

i believe we evolved from an earlier form of humans, but not from "chaos"

thats what the evolution theory supports as well....

evolution.jpg


all jokes aside on the woman part though :D
 
as for the gay stuff that was being mentioned... i found this

Subject: evolution and homos

Why has no one looked at the evolutionary angle to homos? It's really quite simple. If I were living in a traditional society (i.e. a small village or "cave man" tribe without a lot of social mobility [the spatial type, as in picking up and moving from New York to LA] not "status" such as we have now) how might I benefit if, say, my brother were a fag? Well, since he could not move to the big city to be with other fags and waste his time smoking pole, packing fudge, and other faggity pursuits (remember this is a "traditional" village, tribe, etc. setting), he would have to stay in the village. If he stayed in the village, with his family and other relatives, that meant that all of his productivity/resources (whether he was a great hunter, farmer, shoemaker, basket weaver, or whatever) went to his brothers, sisters, and cousins. This increased their fitness (in evolutionary biology terms, fitness is defined as producing children that survive to a reproductive age) as well as his own. How? Simple genetics. Since my brother and I share 50% of our genes that means that if he helps my children survive he is also helping his genes survive. Now, if I carry and pass to my children the fag gene(s), that means that trait will survive. How can I have the fag gene and not be a fag? Recessive and dominant traits is one simple possibility. Another is the environmental stimulation of genetic traits. For example, you may have the genetics to be 6 foot 7 inches, but if your environment was poor and you lacked nutrition, you might only grow to 6 feet. Perhaps certain environmental stimuli push people that carry the genetic trait "over the edge" into fagdom.


written very negativly, but it has some good examples...
 
EGLSHB, the reason that there are still chimpanzees is very simple. For evolution to occur, it requires isolation(such as a group of chimpanzees that seperated from another group and mated and so on). Evolution requires that no new genes be entered into the gene pool. That's why we will probably not evolve beyond what we are. Our mating is spread out and we aren't isolated. So the reason that chimpanzees still exist goes something like this; In Africa a mountain range split part of Africa into a desert and part into a rainforest. The chimpanzees that went into the desert had to learn new ways to survive. With no trees, they needed to learn to walk upright to conserve energy. They also began to shed hair to better deal with the heat. The chimps that were not smart enough to walk upright died off, survival of the fittest coming into play, and that "stupidity" was removed from the gene pool. In the desert they also had to adapt a more protein oriented diet of reptiles, insects, and such. This helped to develop their brains. Then that set into motion our evolution. I hope this helps you to understand some things about evolution EGLSHB.
 
Originally posted by pissedoffsol+Nov 21 2003, 10:11 AM-->
@Nov 21 2003, 10:09 AM
what i am saying is this, i don't think we evolved from protozoa.

i believe we evolved from an earlier form of humans, but not from "chaos"

thats what the evolution theory supports as well....

evolution.jpg


all jokes aside on the woman part though :D

holy shit! thats entirely too funny!!
 
Originally posted by allmotord16rex@Nov 21 2003, 11:19 AM
EGLSHB, the reason that there are still chimpanzees is very simple. For evolution to occur, it requires isolation(such as a group of chimpanzees that seperated from another group and mated and so on). Evolution requires that no new genes be entered into the gene pool. That's why we will probably not evolve beyond what we are. Our mating is spread out and we aren't isolated. So the reason that chimpanzees still exist goes something like this; In Africa a mountain range split part of Africa into a desert and part into a rainforest. The chimpanzees that went into the desert had to learn new ways to survive. With no trees, they needed to learn to walk upright to conserve energy. They also began to shed hair to better deal with the heat. The chimps that were not smart enough to walk upright died off, survival of the fittest coming into play, and that "stupidity" was removed from the gene pool. In the desert they also had to adapt a more protein oriented diet of reptiles, insects, and such. This helped to develop their brains. Then that set into motion our evolution. I hope this helps you to understand some things about evolution EGLSHB.

this will be my first response but i will try to work my way back through to get to all of you:

i thought eveolution happened slowly. if it did, what kept the chimps from being killed off while they were "learning" to stand up straight. i mean they wouldn't be as coordinated if they were walking a way they were not supposed to naturally. i think this would actually put them at a disadvantage and predators would kill them easier.
 
Originally posted by silver+Nov 20 2003, 08:36 PM-->
Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Nov 20 2003, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by sleepergtx@Nov 20 2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Nov 20 2003, 07:40 PM
GSRCRXsi
@Nov 20 2003, 07:25 PM
ok let me get something straight. God made everything in 7 days correct? what happened on each day, in order? i want to see something.

day 1: God creates day and night

Day2: God creates heaven and Earth

day 3: God creates land and sea and the plants

day 4: God creats the sun, moon and the stars

day 5: God creates the animals

day 6: God creates man and woman

day 7: God took a day off. :p

I always wondered where the light came from between day 1 and day 4. ;)

Someone should explain it as well as my mom once did...cause I can't remember what she said. :)

it's easy, God is light. ;)

so i create god/make god come out when i turn on the light?

if you do not believe that things can occur by accident, study the chaos theory. do a search on google.

so once again...god creates day and night, followed by heaven and earth etc etc. are you telling me that it is possible to have a universal day and a universal night? day and night by our definition is when a portion of the earth is in the light of the sun and when it is not.

Micro organisms at first if i recall my biology class correctly protein chains exist based on the common earth elements...carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, etc etc. These micro organisms (single celled organisms prokaryotes i assume) developed when an artifical cell wall was formed by oil bubbles submerged in the ocean created by waves hitting against the coast (you see this commonly in the foam created). Once these artifical cell walls were created the protein strands were able to move inside and become protected from their surroundings, giving birth to the first most basic forms of life. If you do not believe this there was an actual experiment done to artifically create this in a lab, and i'll look for the article if you need proof.

micro organism are infinately more complex then just a few elements coming together. you can't water it down like that. even something as "simple" as a single celled organism has millions of tiny parts that we are still discovering. each part must work together to keep that one oraganism alive. and its way more than a cell wall, cell membrane, and nucleus. this has been proven too. show me the article where they created a cell from water splashing against sand.

as far as the day and night thing, it just means in 24 hours God created darkness and light and he seperated them. calling one day, and one night. it was possible to have a universal day and night because the rest of the universe wasn't even there yet.
 
Originally posted by SolReaver+Nov 20 2003, 09:22 PM-->
Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Nov 20 2003, 07:40 PM
GSRCRXsi
@Nov 20 2003, 07:25 PM
ok let me get something straight. God made everything in 7 days correct? what happened on each day, in order? i want to see something.

day 1: God creates day and night

Day2: God creates heaven and Earth

day 3: God creates land and sea and the plants

day 4: God creats the sun, moon and the stars

day 5: God creates the animals

day 6: God creates man and woman

day 7: God took a day off. :p

um according to the bible plants were created after humans

Gen.2:4-7
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth ... And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground.

now before say, the errors are due to translation, or its a different version than what i read, blah blah blah think about this

if the copies we have now have errors, which copies are correct?

how do you know what's an error and what's supposed to be there?

what if the version you think is correct is just a copy?

how do you know your version isn't a copy?

i don't see the error. i'm serious, just show me what you think is the error.
 
Originally posted by d2149+Nov 20 2003, 09:39 PM-->
saturn_boy96
@Nov 20 2003, 06:11 PM
ok, we will leave religion out of it, but only to a point, because you can see God in more than just "religion".

one word, Entropy.

entropy says that everything goes from a state of order to a state of chaos. its been proven. nothing can go from a state of chaos to a state of order without an outside force acting on it.

I hate it when you religious folks try to use fancy scientific language and just fuck everything up. Here's a tip, scientific terms don't have the same meaning as everyday language.

Entropy has very little to do with biology and the evolution of species and much to do with the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Here's the definition of entropy;

"Consider any infinitesimal process in which a system changes from one equilibrium state to another. If the amount of energy transferred by heat when the system follows a reversible path between the states, then the change in entropy is equal to this amount of energy for the reversible process divided by the absolute termperature of the system" -Clausius, 1865

here's the reader's digest version, if you consider all of the gasoline molecules in a combustion chamber before combustion, then they are going to be in randomly moving direction, they are never all going to be moving in the same direction. It's going to take more energy to get the gas particles all aligned than for them to be randomly moving, this is the disorder that ignoramus was talking about. The heat death of the universe, when the entropy of the universe reaches a maximum and all physical processes stop, is probably what you were talking about. However, entropy has always been increasing, in fact, the entire rise of human beings has occured amidst this entropy progression.

Moral of the story: Don't use words you don't understand.

Entropy is a universal law. it can be seen in everything, even the degradation of our own DNA. it is
 
Originally posted by d2149+Nov 20 2003, 09:39 PM-->
saturn_boy96
@Nov 20 2003, 06:11 PM
ok, we will leave religion out of it, but only to a point, because you can see God in more than just "religion".

one word, Entropy.

entropy says that everything goes from a state of order to a state of chaos. its been proven. nothing can go from a state of chaos to a state of order without an outside force acting on it.

I hate it when you religious folks try to use fancy scientific language and just fuck everything up. Here's a tip, scientific terms don't have the same meaning as everyday language.

Entropy has very little to do with biology and the evolution of species and much to do with the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Here's the definition of entropy;

"Consider any infinitesimal process in which a system changes from one equilibrium state to another. If the amount of energy transferred by heat when the system follows a reversible path between the states, then the change in entropy is equal to this amount of energy for the reversible process divided by the absolute termperature of the system" -Clausius, 1865

here's the reader's digest version, if you consider all of the gasoline molecules in a combustion chamber before combustion, then they are going to be in randomly moving direction, they are never all going to be moving in the same direction. It's going to take more energy to get the gas particles all aligned than for them to be randomly moving, this is the disorder that ignoramus was talking about. The heat death of the universe, when the entropy of the universe reaches a maximum and all physical processes stop, is probably what you were talking about. However, entropy has always been increasing, in fact, the entire rise of human beings has occured amidst this entropy progression.

Moral of the story: Don't use words you don't understand.

Entropy is a universal law. it can be seen in everything, even the degradation of our own DNA. it is THE 2ND LAW OF THERMO-DYNAMICS. i know that entropy has always been increasing, thats what proves evolution impossible.

nothing can go from order to disorder, in other words something that is simple cannot become more complex. elements cannot come together to form a cell, only the opposite is true, repeatable and observable.
 
Originally posted by EGLSHB@Nov 21 2003, 10:09 AM
i agree with you too...

i do not buy into the adam & eve story either, as that wouldn't allow for all the races of the world..

what i am saying is this, i don't think we evolved from protozoa.

i believe we evolved from an earlier form of humans, but not from "chaos"

do you get my meaning...

also, i have not had such a peninsular upbringing to think that we are alone in the universe..

the odds are stacked heavily against Earth being the only planet in the universe able to support life..

and am not a bible-thumping holy-roller either... i believe that the bible is BASED on the truth, but thru the thousands of years, it has been translated and interpreted so many different ways that there is no way of knowing what it originally had to say.

What I would like to see, is a version of the bible that is translated DIRECTLY from Aramaic to english. Like find me an original copy, and translate it to good old English, without first having to translate it to latin, hebrew, ETC./

i think it would have a whole new spin on it.

the errors that people always talk about are nothing more than differences in word usage. like the greek have seven different words for love--> in english we only have one word for love, so you can see there would be "errors" but only because we don't have the words in english.

they do make bibles that have both Greek and direct english translations on the same page so you can look if you would like to.
 
Originally posted by saturn_boy96@Nov 21 2003, 12:49 PM

Entropy is a universal law. it can be seen in everything, even the degradation of our own DNA. it is THE 2ND LAW OF THERMO-DYNAMICS. i know that entropy has always been increasing, thats what proves evolution impossible.

nothing can go from order to disorder, in other words something that is simple cannot become more complex. elements cannot come together to form a cell, only the opposite is true, repeatable and observable.

I love how you just throw around biology and the laws of thermodynamics together like they're supposed to be gay asspals.

As for entropy, the total entropy of an isolated system that undergoes a change can never decrease. Which means that, all process either remain constant entropy or increase in entropy.

Here's the part you're not understanding, things can go from disorder to order, it happens a billion times a day on the planet. If we couldn't make disorder into order then you would never be able to heat or cool your house. In order for us to make gas molecules do what we want them to do (hotter/colder) we have to add some energy. That's why it costs money to run the air conditioner. That's why you have to refuel your car every few hundred miles. Things can go from disorder to order, happens all the time. Some guy was talking about mutations before and was talking about a bolt of lightning, yes that would add a whole bunch of energy and would decrease the entropy of the system.
 
Originally posted by d2149@Nov 21 2003, 01:26 PM
I love how you just throw around biology and the laws of thermodynamics together like they're supposed to be gay asspals.

As for entropy, the total entropy of an isolated system that undergoes a change can never decrease. Which means that, all process either remain constant entropy or increase in entropy.

Here's the part you're not understanding, things can go from disorder to order, it happens a billion times a day on the planet. If we couldn't make disorder into order then you would never be able to heat or cool your house. In order for us to make gas molecules do what we want them to do (hotter/colder) we have to add some energy. That's why it costs money to run the air conditioner. That's why you have to refuel your car every few hundred miles. Things can go from disorder to order, happens all the time. Some guy was talking about mutations before and was talking about a bolt of lightning, yes that would add a whole bunch of energy and would decrease the entropy of the system.

biology is in the universe right? the laws of thermodynamics apply to it too.

what i am saying is that in order for something to go from disorder to order there must be an outside influence on it. hence God.

we have never seen something go from being inanimate to being animate. in your own example the only reason why we can power our homes is because we (a setnient being) have created ways to harness the energy so we can use it for our own good.

when lightning strikes, it melts sand. how does the lightning strike even come close to a theory that perpetrates evolution?
 
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