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Are you covered?

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by jamesA, Jul 17, 2007.

  1. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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    I had a meeting with an associate at my ins. company today and I had some questions as a car guy.

    Like, even though it's not obviously stated on my policy, am I covered if I let someone drive my car and they wreck it? The answer was yes. I wasn't aware of this coverage.

    Another one was, if I took my car to a legal 1/4 mile track and hit the wall... am I covered? Unfortunately; I'm not. Any type of racing like such is not covered, 1/4 mi drag, autocrossing, etc. Doesn't matter if I'm on the track by myself or against someone in the next lane.

    Also asked (not really wanting to do this because it'd raise my premiums) if i could get extra insurance to pay for the modifications if I wrecked. I do plan on spending 2400 on a supercharger soon. That's a fairly large purchase.
     
  2. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    don't bother with the extra... just buy it back and part it out.


    as for crashing on the track... tow it almost home, and hit a pole at like 10 mph.
    :D
     
  3. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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    lmao! That's an expensive tow... 1.5 hours away from the nearest track.
     
  4. Capt. Orygun

    Capt. Orygun Win the Day

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    the other driver coverage is covered under "incidental use" which generally covers infrequent unscheduled use by members not in the household.
     
  5. eg6sir

    eg6sir Supa Mod Moderator VIP

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    other drivers on my car are covered..
     
  6. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

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    If you deliver parts, pizza, etc., for work, in your personally owned vehicle, you aren't covered by your own policy.

    If the vehicle is a personal vehicle, you're not covered by your work's policy.

    Therefore if you have a delivery job, in your own car, your insurance doesn't cover such usage.

    Just a fyi for those who didn't know.
     
  7. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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    Actually when I started delivering, I was covered. Even though I was 'working' and making a paycheck from the usage of my car, I am still the one driving it. I know this because I asked. I love my ins company.
     
  8. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    other drivers on my policy are covered if they are over 25 or direct family. My nephews are not covered.
     
  9. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

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    Look up the terms and conditions.

    Individual policies normally will not cover "limousine" services. This is a standard term in the industry.

    I'm not saying that its impossible for a specific company to cover you, by based on the industry standard and probability, the chances are your insurance agent was wrong and you weren't actually covered.

    I work in the insurance industry. I'm not a P&C agent (property and casualty) but in risk management, the insurance industries overlap so we get to learn many of the industry insights.

    Check your policy and see what it says on "Limousine services", which is what a delivery service would fall under. If that term is in the contract, then they're not liable for coverage on deliveries in personal vehicles which isn't to say that they "can't" cover you but, rather they have no obligation to cover.
     
  10. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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    My insurance agent isn't going to lie to me. I called him directly, and I've had this policy since I was 16. I was covered.
     
  11. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

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    Suite yourself. Being misinformed is different than lying.

    The age of the policy doesn't matter, in fact usually insurance companies won't retroactively upgrade new terms and conditions on old policies, so that would increase the likelihood that you have older terms and conditions that are more stringent than current terms and conditions.

    The trend of the industry has been to move to more appealing conditions like "accident forgiveness", but thats almost entirely on new contracts.

    Some companies will retroactively upgrade current policies but those companies are few and far between.

    As I said, you could be covered, but statistically speaking the chance is far more likely that you contract has the term "Limousine services" disclosed in the contract, relieving the insurance company of any duty or obligation for delivery services.

    Think about it, the insurance company wants your employer to cover you while you're on the job because its one of the fundamental rights of an employee; to fall under the legal umbrella of the company it works for.

    So if your personal vehicle isn't listed on a company policy and you're doing company work, an individual policy will not insure those activities.

    Basically, the moral of the story is if you're delivering things do it in a vehicle thats listed on the company policy.

    How do I know this? I work in the industry that protected a person who was worth $20million from potentially losing all their assets, if their screw up son crashed her car into someone while delivering pizza.

    I'm not saying I'm right and your agent is wrong, I'm saying double check what he said because many people have no idea what they're talking about. Once again, just check for the exclusions of 'Limousine services' if you really want a definitive answer.

    Also, take this with a gain of salt. This is analogous to the story between yourself and driftspeed. The new owner of driftspeed wasn't obligated to cover you, but chose to cover you. An insurance company could even cover someone when the exclusion is included in the policy, but thats the decision of the underwriter, who's job is to protect the company and do that which is in the best interest of the company. If someone who had an exclusion included in coverage hit a pedestrian and caused $5million in medical bills, you better believe that company certainly is going to point to the exclusion in the contract and say, "I'm not covering that."
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2007
  12. dveit

    dveit Well-Known Member VIP

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    I love how burnout is basicially telling you what coverage you have.
     
  13. Bob Vila

    Bob Vila ɐןıʌ qoq Admin VIP

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    TB is correct. As a former P&C license holder, your policy will not cover livery services under a standard auto policy. I would be more than sure that while you were delivering pizza's, your employer was paying insurance on your behalf through their own ins. company.

    Also, ANYONE is allowed to drive the vehicle and be covered (as long as you grant permission) unless the insurance company enacts a driver exclusion which grants the ins. company the right to deny a claim if the named driver was to be driving the vehicle at time of accident. This is normally conducted by the insurance company itself, except in CA. where drivers can exclude household drivers from their policies to save on ins. premiums. In other states, the household will need to show proof of insurance for said drivers to NOT be identified as a driver on the policy.

    As far as older policy plans, etc. Insurance companies will keep them on the older policy plans due to the fact that they are more profitable than these newer plans. It's ~2:1 ratio in comparison of profit to the older policy plans - therefore, its best to stay with that policy (albeit you won't have as many benefits as the new plans outside of the typical liability/comp/collision). Normally, the only time an insurance company will automatically switch to a newer policy plan (usually a savings to the consumer) is when they are replacing their backend administration systems. I was a PM with my former employer and was in the process of going through the motions with the state to conduct these transformations because the newer systems don't accept the antiquated policy plans without a TON of development. Cost/benefit ratio is definately a fine line. You're top 10 carriers (outside of Geico and Progressive) are currently going through this as they have been on the same legacy policy admin systems since the 60's.

    Any more questions? :)
     
  14. Bob Vila

    Bob Vila ɐןıʌ qoq Admin VIP

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    Its pretty much a standard through the P&C industry, especially in a vanilla state like Indiana (hardly any exceptions to a basic policy exclusions).
     
  15. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

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    What was it that you didn't understand?

    The entirety of what I typed out? Or was the "technical" lingo over your head?

    Clearly, I hold an insurance license and I work in the insurance industry, except on the other end of the spectrum. However, as I previously said the things I do in the financial industry overlap with P&C and its relation to risk management.

    I didn't tell him what coverage he had, I told him to check for himself and be positive. Its an industry standard clause, which means that the terminology is standard and therefore the probability that he has this clause included in his contract is greater than the possibility of not having the clause included.

    Therefore statistics say that the other agent was misinformed. I've had conversations with P&C agents who explained the terminology to myself, like I said, we helped a $20million client protect his assets by understanding that his son wouldn't be covered should he get in an accident, while on the clock, in his personal vehicle.

    I can't say things anymore plainly that my message was that the only way to be sure is to check for yourself. Misinformation and sly maneuvers are the very reason why us salespeople have a bad reputation hanging over our heads. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution and be positive about things, rather than spitting out an answer that may not be entirely correct.

    If he's covered on a policy that was in force for ~10years?? (or so, he said it started at 16, I think he's around 26) than the possibility that he's actually covered is even smaller than a policy put into force in this current year.

    Another thing, when a client sends an insurance policy to myself to be examined, all I need to see are the first 2 pages of the contract because all the rest of the pages are industry standard and look identical from company to company. It might give you a little more insight how I could make a very good estimation of the likelihood of his coverage.
     
  16. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

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    Someone who knows what they're talking about. :)

    You hit the nail on the head about retroactive policies as well. In my industry, my company was the only or one of the only companies to put retroactive policies into effect and grant current policy holders the same policy upgrades and updates as new policy holders.

    The insurance industry is shrinking and major players are making moves to gain market share. The end result is the customer is benefiting from all the perks of new policies as insurance companies battle each other for customers. I didn't know what to think of All State and accident forgiveness, until I saw other companies get on the same bandwagon and offer the same sort of policies.

    Geico recently came into New Jersey, after most other insurance companies had left the state because they felt that NJ was not profitable enough. Since Geico entered here, more companies have come back into the market and premiums have went down.

    Thumbs up to that. :D
     
  17. dveit

    dveit Well-Known Member VIP

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    I understood everything crystal clear. I just found it comical that you're calling him out on his own policy, that's all. No need to be a dick. But then again...you get off on this shit, don't you?

    Pleaseeeee, it's the fucking internet.... who cares.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2007
  18. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

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    Let me examine this, you come into the thread and call me out, when I know exactly what I'm talking about and I get off on this shit?

    In the end I educated him on whats standard and why its standard and I gave him some solid advice.

    Clearly you didn't understand because no where did I ever say that he didn't have a certain coverage, I just told him the likelihood of having that particular coverage is very slim and then I backed up what I had said with information.

    If trying to help someone out is 'getting off on this shit', then you're right, I must get off on it.
     
  19. Bob Vila

    Bob Vila ɐןıʌ qoq Admin VIP

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    My previous employer (my wife still works there though) has had accident forgiveness since 1984 - they just don't market it like other companies have until recently. They've also had a disapearing deductible since 84 as well.

    Question to you is: who's my previous employer? No answers from B, Jeef or Scrapin please ;)
     
  20. Black Widow g2

    Black Widow g2 *princess*

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    Allstate? LOL (I'm only saying that because of the commercials on TV, but by what you stated above, I'm sure I'm incorrect.)
     
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