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Army Stop-Loss Policy

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by justin94, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. justin94

    justin94 New Member

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  2. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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    i see no problem with them tossing him in jail for that

    his actions could negatively effect the moral of others serving

    you cant do that kind of shit

    he would have been tossed in there for not deploying anyway... fuck that honorless bitch... let him rot
     
  3. Battle Pope

    Battle Pope New Member

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    I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that once you signed up for the army, all bets were off.
     
  4. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member VIP

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    Yup he is getting what he should. If you enlist you had better know where the line is to keep your own ass out of the brig.
     
  5. invisibledemon

    invisibledemon Bored Moderator VIP

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    eh, i can kind of see both sides of the story here.
    on the military's side, he may be in violation of his contracts. and i have not heard the song, nor do i care too, but if he actually made verbal threats, then he got what he deserved.
    and he should have known before signing that he could be stop lossed.

    but i also know that most recruiters use some fucked up tactics and leave out a lot of details to get you recruited.

    on the other side, i know people who recently got out of the military, and i know that they would have been more than pissed if they had been stop-lossed.
    so really, he hasnt affected moral at all, those people have probably already lost it. and this could very well fall under freedom of speech.

    but he should have known that sending damn near anything to the pentagon would end badly.

    they could have handled the situation better by waiting for him to refuse deployment then arrest him for that. either way, they get what they want.

    it could really go either way. but if the army wins, this may be the foundation for the taking away of our speech rights, if we actually have them.
     
  6. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member VIP

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    I have never understood the recruiters lie line of thinking. It is up to each individual person to figure this shit out on their own. When you buy a car do you just blindly sign the contract?? How about a house? How about a student loan?

    See this is the problem, you end up with these kids that enlist in the military to pay for school. Pay for their wife and kids to have a sweet house or whatever and then guess what! Uncle Sam comes and wants his money back. Weird.... And then guys go to war, and it turns out that war is not sucky fucky all day long. And they decide well I dont like war anymore so they bitch out.

    Now I have never served but I do serve our nations vets. And it pisses me off when guys try and run this game. I HAD a friend that was in the Army, he actually got selected for the Scouts. So he got to go to Alaska, cross train with the Japaneses all this fun shit right? The US government, our tax dollars payed for his ass to get a million dollars worth of training if not more and then guess what? His country says to him "Hey buddy we are going to war! Remember all those things we taught you? Spent all that money on you so you and your squad could make hit home alive? Well its time to pay it back son." Do you know what he said? He called his father and had him call is CO and confirm he was in fact a homosexual. That is right, he gayed out of the Army. Honorable discharge and all. GI bill and all. So what is the difference between the two? In my eyes, nothing.
     
  7. Battle Pope

    Battle Pope New Member

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    No, see, that's different. This guy actually did a tour, that guy that homo'd his way out couldn't even muster that.
     
  8. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member VIP

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    But the motive was the same right? They didn't want to go. One guy had already been and decided to piss all over his comrades and the other guy decided to piss on them before they stepped off.
     
  9. Battle Pope

    Battle Pope New Member

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    Nevermind, I don't feel like typing a couple of paragraphs. If you don't see the difference I don't think anything I say would matter anyway.
     
  10. invisibledemon

    invisibledemon Bored Moderator VIP

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    really?
    did you forget what country you are in?

    we had a recruiter at my school, as sly and greasy as they come.
    he recruited a bunch of people i know, and my brother.
    he tried everyday to recruit me. im serious, he knew how competitive me and my brother are, and he used that a lot as a tactic.
    he was the kind to put the proper amount of pressure and bullshit on his recruits.
    before they signed on, he gave them EVERYTHING they wanted. did all kinds of cool shit, got them out of class for a couple of hours to go to lunch and hang out at random places.
    gave them 24 hour access to his government car, and gas card.
    when it came time to sign, he would not give them the option to have an attorney look over the contract (these werent the smartest guys either, which coincidentally is the type most recruiters prey upon), he made all kinds of promises and guarantees of random shit (including rank and pay upon signing) but wouldnt put it in writing.
    he would say that it was already in the contract. which was worded in ways that these regular dumbasses didnt understand and wouldnt know if it were actually in there.
    and this one in particular, made it perfectly clear that his contracts were only 4years. no chance of having to stay longer. i remember this, because he told me that everyday he talked to me.

    thats only the tip of the iceburg.
    how many people do you actually know that take every contract they sign to an attorney to have it looked over?
    i know of zero.
     
  11. justin94

    justin94 New Member

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    The guy in jail now didn't wanna do another tour cause his contract was going to be up soon. His wife just had a baby and he wanted to go home to be with them. That's different then saying you gay and getting out.
     
  12. invisibledemon

    invisibledemon Bored Moderator VIP

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    no, one guy expected a free ride, and when the shit hit the fan he got scared and pissed out. he didnt actually expect to get deployed. thought he would only get the benefits without actually serving somewhere other than home.

    this guy, he did his time, he did his tour, he earned his money, and he honored his side of the contract.
    but, in the time he was in, he changed, as most people do, over those years. and now he feels that we have no right being over there in the first place.
    he became a conscientious objector. which is well within his rights to do so.

    from the wiki page about conscientious objection.

    there is a definite difference.
     
  13. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member VIP

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    Well the way I look at it is he signed up. That means he agreed to the possibility of being stop lossed. I'm not saying it's the exact same for each of them. But there are all kinds of strings that come attached.

    my last few posts today have been all rambely and what not. I'm trying to quit chewing so I'm a little off.
     
  14. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member VIP

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    I know what game recruiters like to run. I had a Navy recruiter tell me that the longest I would be at sea was 6 months. I said put it in writing and the tripped all over himself. I said thank you for your time sir and explored other options. There job is to fill the ranks. Those are their orders.

    And I am pretty sure that one adult talking to another consenting adult or a minor with parental consent is considered preying upon. When you 18 you are responsible for you. There is always fine print, if you neglect to examine that fine print or seek someone out who knows what it means then I cannot feel sorry for you.

    Now back to the guy that got locked up. I will try and elaborate a little more on what I was trying to say about the guy gaying out and and the guy that was talking smack.

    Both men made a commitment, they signed a contract and part of their oath is defending this country against all enemies both foreign and domestic. Now when they sign that contract their are all kinds of little nooks and crannies. One of which is stop lose. When you enlist you agree to it. It appears that he enlisted four years ago or so right? So that was in 2005 we had been in Iraq how long? Stop loss has been in effect during the Gulf War, Bosnia and Kosavo and it has been in effect since 9/11. So it isnt some big secret or some 2pt font hidden in the margin of page 894. He did a tour and for that I commend him, but as stated before. Producing something that may negatively effect the image of the United States Military is against the rules, same for effecting moral. Hell the job that I have if I a where to be openly critical of my employer in public I could face dismissal. I recognize that this is a rule and I understand and accept the terms.
     
  15. jeffie7

    jeffie7 Wrong Whole! VIP

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    At that point you say, oh then I guess I can't sign it.

    Was that hard?

    If the guy kept pressing the kids to give him 5 bucks would they have? if the guy kept pressing to get them to jerk him off would they have? If he keeps pressing for them to sign their life away for X many years, they just do it because he says to?
    Even if he promises rank or pay, anyone over the age of 16 should be smart enough to see that he's full of shit.

    Just proves once again Americans tend to be stupid and don't know their rights.

    Someone else pointed it out you don't buy a car with out reading the fine print, you don't get into a home loan without reading the fine print.

    When I rented my apartment I skimmed over every page of my lease, took around 30 seconds a page, what shocked me was that the lady working with me said that I was the FIRST PERSON to ever look over the whole lease. It took me all of 5 minutes total to read and sign way too many pages.

    When I bought my house, my agent said that I asked more questions then most, if I didn't understand something clearly, I didn't sign it until she explained exactly what it meant.
     
  16. invisibledemon

    invisibledemon Bored Moderator VIP

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    i already know that, one reason i avoided the guy at all cost was because i could smell his bullshit and almost able to see it pouring out of him.

    for the majority of people around here? yes. yes it is.

    in order:
    Yes
    most likely (if they didnt?)
    Yes
    they arent. trust me. they really arent.
    even some pretty close friends that were talking to him after i had seen him do the same tricks so many times, they didnt take my warnings. i told them exactly what he was going to do and say at promise and how he was going to weasel out of those promises once they sign.
    they didnt believe me. i had many "i told you so" days.
    they find the idiots, and focus in on them. its easy.
    \
     
  17. jeffie7

    jeffie7 Wrong Whole! VIP

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    So you have stupid friends?

    I'd bet my house and every last item I have that no guy could ever recruit me on the spot for a life changing event with out me at least sleeping on it and reviewing the docs over and over again.
     
  18. invisibledemon

    invisibledemon Bored Moderator VIP

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    yes, i have had some very stupid friends.
    had being the keyword there.

    and im the same way, he didnt like that i wouldnt enlist. i told him my reasons for not wanting, and of course he gave me some bullshit counter reason, but whenever eh would tell me something i would tell him to put it in writing.
    i never got that paper. lol.

    i wont sign anything until i read it, and depending upon the situation behind the document, i will have attorneys look over the paperwork.
    im not an idiot, i know the kind of stunts people pull.

    but, in my school/town, there is no shortage of idiots.

    prime example: antioch used to be a really popular small toen just minutes outside of nashville. it was the nice area that people liked to live. but the kids, living in their new subdivisions, with mommy and daddy footing the bill for everything (basically never known a "hard" day in their life), decided that they wanted to be gangster.
    literally, they started little "wars" between subdivisions. they would go around each others subdivisions and tag everything. and living in one of these places, my shit got tagged.
    i have lived here since 2001. this town is now on par with the worst neighborhood in the middle tn area. it took these idiots much less than 10 years to take a highly popular and sought area down to the area that people avoid at all cost.
    thats the kind of idiots i get to see every time im in this area.
     
  19. 95b16coupe

    95b16coupe New Member

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    i stopped reading after this....
    yep, you're a fucking dumbass.

    oh, and the battle about recruiters and shit, well tough fucking luck. they go over this many MANY times on the enlistment trail before you even go to boot camp.
     
  20. 805teggy

    805teggy lnly onceda boost is gone

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    is Stop-Loss Policy for all branches?? i been thinking of joining the air guard..
     
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