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Ask a Liberal (god knows there are plenty on here)

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by Capt. Orygun, Jul 15, 2006.

  1. Capt. Orygun

    Capt. Orygun Win the Day

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    So I want to preface this by saying that this isn't being asked out of malice. I honestly want to know if anyone thinks like this and if so why, so don't be afraid to comment and if this gets out of hand it wasn't my intention.

    Recently terror groups backed by certain governments invaded Israel and killed/ kidnapped soldiers. Israel did exactly what the USA would do in that situation, they fought back. Over the last 48 hours not only have Europe/ Russia/ China come out against Israel, it took a US vote in the UN to kill a motion to condemn Israel for it's actions in defense of its self.

    does anyone disagree with with Israel's actions, and if you do why and what do you not like about it. I honestly want to hear it
     
  2. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    Wereas Israel is within its right to defend itself, it need not blow up half a country for two soldiers. And didn't they capture people too?

    An eye for an eye and this is what you get.

    If I were Israel, I would go about this a different way... this could be the catalyst that all of these "terror" (word used loosely here) groups need to nuke them off the planet. One small nuke will suffice. Hmmm... who do we know who both wants/has a nuke AND wants Israel written off for eternity?

    I honestly believe that there's more going on than Israel (or Hazballah) wants to let on. If they want to blast themselves back into the stone age, let them. That whole area is just one big clusterfuck waiting to explode.
     
  3. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    Well, their goal is to remove the hellbozrah (or whatever it is) group from power, and to return the border patrol power back to the lebanesse.

    isreal isn't fighting lebanon. they are fighting a social cult/group that happens to have taken over part of lebanon.
     
  4. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    That's fine and dandy, and removed from power they should be. However the way Israel is going about it will surely piss off a lot of people. Someone sees an Israeli fighter hammer an airport, a highway, a metro district and "hundreds of targets" as the news sites put it, they're not gonna get mad at the Hezzies, they're gonna aim their anger at the Israelis.

    Just a bad situation no matter how you cut it. Can't please all the people all the time, but damn... I wouldn't like it if a foreign nation blew up half of my downtown district because a group they don't like has influence there. This will simply cause more troubles down the road.
     
  5. d.b.cooper

    d.b.cooper Mid-life Crisis Swap

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    Yes, seems kinda un-neighborly.

    I sure do hope it doesnt quash the good feelings that palestinians and lebonese muslims have had previously for the state of Israel.

    Israel really ought to watch it so they don't make them mad or the palestinians and the majority of the arab world might just decide to re-orient their goals to something like, say the complete destruction of Israel.

    Oh, wait, weren't they have been calling for the death of all israeli's for years? Since 1948? Hmm how much madder might they get?
     
  6. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    Slamming planes into buildings madder. Setting off a nuke madder. Derka derka mohammed jihad madder.
     
  7. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

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    Yes, an eye for an eye leaves the world blind...but an arm for an eye, tells the rest of the world you're not kidding around, "Don't mess with us."

    It may seem archaic, but its like laying that bully out for the first time, just to let them know that you're serious and you'll no longer take it.
     
  8. High_Rolling_Civic

    High_Rolling_Civic Member

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    And what about the bully's friends that are near by, or the fact that basically nobody else on the playground likes the way you are handling the situation? Or what if you laying the bully out only makes him mad at you and now he wants revenge?
     
  9. TurboMirage

    TurboMirage YEEAAAHHH VIP

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    then you give him 30,000 punches to the face.
     
  10. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

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    Is there a right way to handle the situation?

    Is there a way that does not have consequence?

    "For every action, there's an equal reaction."

    Fear is a powerful thing and can be used as an effective tool. Its the reason why all the other bullies won't join in, if they're afraid of the repercussions.
     
  11. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    That, or out of fear all the other bullies will join together and wipe out the aggressor, genocide style.

    Like I said, one nuke will do the trick. It isn't that hard. Israel definitely has balls of chromium moly.
     
  12. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

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    When Celerity speaks of the tension in the Middle East and its heritage, he generally hits the nail on the head.

    The problem with the Middle East has always been and will continue to be, a deep seaded problem regarding religious and cultural conflicts - two of the most difficult conflicts to overcome. If these people were not bread to have a strong dislike, distrust, and even hatred for bordering countries and religions there would be far less conflict.

    Unfortunately, after World War II, when we stepped in on all the feet of the islamic world we sealed our own fate. True, we only wanted democracy and what was in our best interest in the Middle East but unfortunately we butted in on a conflict that has been occuring since before the beginning of time.

    I also feel that "one nuke will do the trick", but on the same token I know it won't. It won't do the trick for the same reason that our battling the extremist will never do the "trick'. To change a person's beliefs is incredibley difficult if not impossible if they believe the beliefs come from a greater force. Complete genocide is the only answer.
     
  13. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    They realize that geoncide is the only answer and that's the answer they are pursuing unfortunately. There really isn't anything we can do to stop the conflicts.

    You also said it right about stepping on the feet of the islamic world. "In our best interest" is what almost always gets us into trouble.
     
  14. High_Rolling_Civic

    High_Rolling_Civic Member

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    So an equal reaction to two kidnapped soldiers is to try and bomb as much as possible? I say Isreal shuold kidnap a whole bunch of Lebanon soldiers. Why? Use them as a barganing tool: we will trade yours for ours. And if the Hazballah wont do the trade, then the people of Lebanon will get upset that the Hazballah will not save thier people. Having the people against them will be helpful in removing the Hazballah from power and at this point you can start using more forceful methods such as bombing.
     
  15. d.b.cooper

    d.b.cooper Mid-life Crisis Swap

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    Are you honestly in favor of appeasement...

    of monsters capable of such acts?

    Neville Chamberlin and JFK's Father would be so proud!
     
  16. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    You don't need monsters when you have people who are willing to give their life for whatever cause they have. They believe that they will be rewarded in the next life by giving their lives to be a martyr. That's all the reasoning they need.

    The true monsters lurk in the shadows. Some foreign, some not.
     
  17. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    Along the Nile River, at it's source in Ethiopia, lie walls and massive gates that Ethiopia used to close off the Nile and kill those upstream.

    About 1000 years ago.

    Ever wonder how it is that Christianity exists at all in regions of Africa, especially in areas of the Sudan and Egypt ? These are the bosom of Islam, a place where Mecca itself exists and where Mohammed is claimed to have walked. It's also where hundreds of the artifacts and places of the Bible exist to this very day.

    Muslims don't want those artifacts around - A lot of them flat-out deny the existance of Mohammed and Allah. So how is that Muslims allow this in their own backyard ?

    Well, a long time ago, they tried to destroy it all. They tried to wipe out Christianity in all it's aspects. Until Ethiopia (A place of extreme significance in the Bible) shut down the Nile. Now, The Nile provides a place... perhaps the only place in the Ancient world, where Muslims and Christians live in harmony... Well.. Forced harmony.

    And they did this, and continue to do this, only by the strong pimp-hand provided by shutting down the main artery of the African Basin. Did you know that controlling this river, and the power presented by it, is the reason of the Sudanese / Ethiopian conflicts of today ? They've been fighting for this water way for centuries !

    Because if the free world has learned something, debate and concessions do not fucking work with the Muslim horde. They have not ONCE responded to it. Israel gave up Gaza earlier this year in an effort to create peace in the region. And that peace lasted for about 3 days before they started shelling the West Bank again.

    As Westerners it's difficult to understand - this conflict, since the inception of the Israeli state, is NOT about borders. It's not about prime lands and plentiful resources. It's about wiping out the Jews. It's not about a foothold in culture, it's not about religious pride in their mother land. Islam wants only to wipe out non-muslims. Everything else is tertiary. Muslims do this through the following methods:

    1. Converting. This is successful. The idea of powerful male positions, great rewards in the afterlife, and a strong pimp-hand is tempting to any man. Ever consider how cool it might be to have 6 wives ? Ever think about Mormonism ? Sure you have. it's the offering of a position of power.

    2. Breeding. This is very successful in France, Spain and believe it or not - Sweden where the Swede prime minister has actually brought up that the country is predominantly Muslim. SWEDEN !

    3. Fighting. Make demands, and do not stop fighting until those demands are met. Remember the France rioting earlier this year? That was Muslim rioting. The Palestinian bloodshed on the West Bank ? Muslim rioting. Both were because jobs and money were not given to them. Instead of exercising brain power and solving a problem, they raised their weapons and started ruthlessly killing to get their way.

    4. Terrorism. I'm going to properly define terrorism for you. I won't patronize you by pasting a sharp definition from one of the zillions of definitions out there. I'll give it in simple terms:

    The number 1 biggest terrorist in the world is your common 3 year old american child. There, I said it. I think we should wipe them out. They will cry and throw temper tantrums until they get their way. If they get their way they will not think twice about using this method in the future (It works). If you want to stop it, you don't give in. You ignore them. If you want to stop it NOW and FOREVER you utilise swift and diffident response:

    You knock the little fucker upside the snot locker.

    North Korea is a terrorist regime. We have no north korean suicide bombers, no North Korean responsibility for downed airplanes, for blown up train stations or for even border incursions. They Terrorize through their Missile program aimed at, and in efforts to, terrorize Japan into making a move. They are just as "terrorist" as the actual people that flew planes into 3 buildings on September 11th, 2001. Same thing. No wait, More so... Because flying planes into buildings had no demand, no rhyme or reason, no real affect for anyone's agenda. It was just stupid. It was an attack on Americans for the sake of an attack on Americans. It's like finding the biggest, baddest dude in the bar and just kicking him in the shin and sticking your tongue out. Iraq stating that people are in the US with dirty nukes, Iran deflecting Nuclear proliferation efforts and Afghanistan training suicide bombers is terrorist activity.

    Another thing about Muslims and loss-of-life. They don't fucking care. Nothing makes one of these bombed-out adobe dwelling stinky ass hair farmers more excited about waking up in the morning than the desire to take a bullet in the head. They look forward to dying, they don't care about dead people. They step over dead people in the alley. They kill themselves in an effort to lay down international pressures. I'm not saying this is right or wrong (Democrats kill babies, so why the fuck not) but I am saying that it is honestly how they work. They kill and maim women for reading. Once a year they practice public self-flagulation (Where they all get into the streets and cut themselves and others, including youths).

    Islam does not a Reason to kill or riot, They only need an Excuse.

    -> Steve
     
  18. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    Says it all.

    Ah the Christian right. They need not kill and blow things up (oops... abortion clinic bombings, forgot about them) they simply push their agenda with politics.

    However that's a chat for another thread.
     
  19. Celerity

    Celerity Well-Known Member

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    I started to look up some facts on the number of abortions (I imagine over a few million) and compare it to the amount of abortion clinic bombings (3) but in my research I found nothing but a handful of sites written by liberal arts majors that I almost put a bullet in my monitor. I won't go further into it.

    "Muslims and Christians"

    You'll notice that Christians aren't the ones at war here. So any, including my, rhetoric about how Muslims and Christians get along is not for the sake of this exact topic: Israel v. Islam.

    And that's why I think you're having a hard time grasping this conflict right now. So pay close attention to the next line:

    Israel is fighting for it's very fucking existance. They are not fighting for borders, they are not fighting for farmlands. They are fighting a very large, emcompassing group that has stated flat-out it's divine right to murder all jews, and has made direct affronts and threats to do just that - No more, no less

    What you are doing is going back in time and seig-heiling to Adolf Hitler. This is exactly what you are doing. You are supporting the death of Israel and of Israeli Jews. Nothing more, Nothing less.

    If you side with Islam in any of it's actions, you are anti-semitic and should be regarded as such. Lets call a spade a spade - You are a pin, flag or pamphlet away from being a neo-nazi fascist or at the very least a supporter of fascism.

    My name is Celerity, and I endorse this message.
     
  20. Sabz5150

    Sabz5150 FALCON PUNCH!!!

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    Once again ignoring the fact that those atrocities happened. If you don't like abortions, don't get one. It's that simple.

    Okay, believers in God versus believers in Allah.

    I'm quite aware of the stance of the Muslims over there. I never stated anything to the contrary. I'll say it flatly: those people are fuckin nuts.

    Seeing that I am sitting two feet from a jew, I can call bullshit on that.

    That conservative blood flows strong in your veins. Saying I am supporting the death of one group of people when I am clearly not. Goes along the lines of "killing babies" and "death tax" and other neat little spins. I don't support the death of anybody.

    What I did say is that Israel is getting ballsy because they have America on their side and it's gonna cost them. Their attacks on Lebanon is going to bring down the combined wrath of all these nutcases into one mushroom cloud shaped finale.

    Fascism is on the RIGHT of the political scale. Isn't that where you sit? Let's also call a spade a spade. You're a neocon through and through. You believe that only your views should exist and you are quick to put exaggerated labels on anything that you don't like. In the land of the free, you want those who think differently to leave because of their views alone.

    Now, do I support fascism? Nope. Webster, take it away!

    Fascism: A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

    Hmmm... last time I checked, I don't support any of those causes. There's those exaggerated labels again! Calling me a commie would have been closer, however not accurate. I'm a liberal.

    Liberal: Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

    You heard it here folks!
     
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