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B16A/B18B - A Tough Swap?

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by konzine, Oct 6, 2007.

  1. konzine

    konzine New Member

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    HondaSwap,

    How's it?! My name is Brett, I'm 19 years old, and I just bought my first Honda. It's a 92 Si Shell, with Full interior. I love it, Absolutely love it. Paid 500 for it, body is completely straight, No dents, BRAND new paint, lowered on coil overs with 17's. I really am in love with this car.

    Old owner took out the engine because he was going to swap it. He got fired, and had already sold the stock engine, thus.. No more Honda for bro over here.

    Sooo I picked it up a few days ago because I saw it's potential. I was just going to go buy a stock engine for this bad boy, but then I saw how much was actually available for these cars. I'm not new to the auto-world by all means, I'm an avid Rubicon (that's a Jeep.) Owner/Crawler. Anyway, I want some power guys.

    Who Doesn't? So I looked around a bit and saw this B18B and this B16A and what not. Well, I want a good Trq/HP Ratio. I looked at this B16A SI-R and it was 170 HP yeah but LOW in the Torque range, like 116 Lb.s. If I have to live with that, fine. If not, I'd like to crank some torque out of this.


    SOO What Am I asking of you? I don't want to go under 2000 on this swap, so whats best for that. Also, whats a good website for the full swap kits? Including Engines and all! Thanks guys!!


    - Brett
     
  2. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy It's only stupid if it doesn't work VIP

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    HMotorsOnline.com. And did you mean you don't want to go OVER $2000 on the swap? I personally would save up for a GSR/B18c1 if you already have a car to daily drive.
     
  3. killektiv

    killektiv New Member

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    Aslo check JHOT Imports for their ebay auctions on full motor sets. They usually have some good stuff.
     
  4. vtec919si

    vtec919si New Member

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    i had a 00 si, and put an H22 in there, i how much work u have to do for a 92 but if u want power and torque, i would look into the H22
     
  5. vtec919si

    vtec919si New Member

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    i had a 00 si, and put an H22 in there, i how much work u have to do for a 92 but if u want power and torque, i would look into the H22
     
  6. konzine

    konzine New Member

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    Ok, Awesome replies thanks.

    Will a B18B Block Swap into a 92 civic? Basic question! :)
     
  7. killercannible

    killercannible Senior Member

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    If you want more power but don't know how far you want to go, ie. possible power adds in the future. I suggest you do an ls swap because you can always go ls vtec which is very straight forward, cheap, and makes alot of power.
     
  8. Junk Yard Dog

    Junk Yard Dog New Member

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    honda swap-Brett

    The swap is not hard, the B20B dowl alignment pin has to be relocated to the other end of the block. You should use the B16A1 head, even in its stock configuration it will give a lot of power. You use the type R intake and exhaust. A GSR transmission if you go all motor, if you go turbo use an LS transmission. When you put on the timing belt use the B20B installation instructions, and don't advance the timing more than 4 degrees. The SI ECU works fine for initial useage, when you go turbo go AEM it has a program that will get you to a tuner...I go to Red Line. If you want to pull heavy revs, replace the cast rod bolts and replace them with forged...I use forged stainless. To increase your lubrication use the type R oil pump and put in an oil pan with a baffle system to stop the engine from starving out when pulling heavy Gees in the corner.
     
  9. Junk Yard Dog

    Junk Yard Dog New Member

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    B16A1/B20B-Brett

    I live in Washington, the auto wrecking yards are full of cars that yuppies wrecked CRV's, GSR's. B20B heads are plentiful, a new set of valves and a valve job and your in business. If you go automatic on the transmission, you an find one with low miles if you continually go to different wrecking yards. Unless you do not have to have a manual trans, there is no need to buy a clutch or blow a shift...wrecking your transmission. A lot of after market parts can be found in almost new condition. Suspension and CV shaft parts I would never use off a wrecked car. But you can pick up a complete Accel ignition for a fraction of the initial cost...better becareful I might just ruin a good thing for myslef.
     
  10. Junk Yard Dog

    Junk Yard Dog New Member

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    B20b/b16a1 Swap

    The external portion of the B16, B18, B20 and the type R are the same. you can put all these engines into the Integra, Civic and the GSR. You can replace the GSR block and place all the GSR part on it as if it was a GSR block. A GSR Turbo with a B2O block, oil sprayer mods for the crank, forged rod blts, replacement pistons for increased valve clearance and increase turbo boost by five pounds and watch out!!!
     
  11. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    I just want to clarify a few things here...

    Junkyard, you're getting way ahead of yourself here, the guy just wants to know what motors will fit in his car, he hasn't told us whether he plans to boost or go N/A or anything really.

    But, since we're on the subject, if you do plan on boosting sometime in the future, I would stay away from automatic transmissions. True, you eliminate the danger of missing a shift, but Honda automatics are notoriously weak, and have a tendency to break once you start applying more horsepower than what they were designed to hold.

    Plus, the gear ratios tend to suck on the 4-speed automatic compared to their 5-speed counterparts.

    Also, the LS tranny isn't necessarily the best choice for turbo. Shorter gears are usually better, regardless of whether you're boosted or N/A. I'd say use a GSR tranny for a turbo setup, and a B16 or Type R tranny for an N/A setup.
     
  12. konzine

    konzine New Member

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    Turbo is a possibility down the road. At this point, I don't think so but yes I am sure I'll invest in a few months or so and out-reach to a turbo set up.

    B20, Im not sure. I think i'm going to go with the b18 and go LS VTec.

    I have heard many people say put the b16 head on the b18 block, why is this?
     
  13. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    B16 head on a B18 block is LS-VTEC. The B16 head is generally liked because it flows slightly better compared to a GSR head. A Type-R head would be the best choice, but also the most expensive.
     
  14. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy It's only stupid if it doesn't work VIP

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    Just make sure if you do go LS/VTEC that you do it right. Don't just swap the head. There is a good write up on how to do it properly on this site somewhere.
     
  15. Junk Yard Dog

    Junk Yard Dog New Member

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    BrutalB83.....I made three entries which were directed to the possibilities of using any of all the various V-TEC engines as they share multiple possibilities of interchangeability. And if you take time to read all three of my entires entries you would have noticed that.

    Not all automatics are created equal, the honda economy models are boat anchors....true. Now the 1997 Acura Integra 1.8 VTEC Automatic Transmission is a completely different story. It sounds like you know quite a bit about turbos, and I tapped out quite a bit about the possibilities of doing both an all motor and the starting process for going turbo.

    Yah and I have a 96 Honda V-TEC coupe. with a B20B/B16A1 that I have gone insane with. I am a fanatic that has been ripping cars apart and putting them back together...this is what I do far a living...I put them together, paint them and sell them...the people I sell to bring their friends to buy my next car. So I have a rep on the street as the DOG.

    And you really have to watch you gear ratios when dealing with a turbo, if the transmission winds your engine to quickly you lose the benefit of you engines mid range power band. I know you think that the quicker the engine winds out the sooner the race is over right...I know if have this arguement often on the street and raced a few of them just to prove my point..as the GSR is the most popular trans at this time and moment.

    The most important step on a B20B or B20Z/B16A1 swap is the timing belt. You are timing the head to the block. If the timing belt is off by a notch the pistons will hit the valves in an open position, If you use a cam that is not a factory V-TEC cam the pistons will customize your valves. I would replace the pistons and rod bolts before installing the engine, on top of boring and sleeving the block. If it is a money issue, just replace the rod bolts and run the head stock. Rock on!!!!

    You really need to work on your harsh communication skill though
     
  16. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy It's only stupid if it doesn't work VIP

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    I agree, the GSR automatic is a sweet transmission. And how many have you seen in real life? And how many of them were for sale? They were rare when they were brand new.
     
  17. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Harsh communication skills? What did I say that was so "harsh"???

    Anyways, I'm still not convinced that longer-geared transmissions are ALWAYS better for turbo setups. The point of the gear ratios on a transmission are to keep the engine inside its optimal power band. A VTEC engine makes most of its power up top, therefore a short-geared tranny, which will keep the RPMs fairly high between shifts is the best choice. For an LS motor, which revs lower and has a broader torque curve, a longer-geared transmission is fine.

    Now, as far using the LS tranny for boost...

    If you're using the LS motor, then yeah, that would work, but if you're boosting a B16 or GSR, the motor is going to make more power up top, both because VTEC is going to kick in, and because the turbo is going to reach maximum boost. It seems to me that you would want a shorter-geared transmission with a setup like that; you want a tranny that will get you to the motor's powerband (probably 5-9k rpm, depending on your build) fairly quickly, and keep you there between shifts.

    If you use a longer-geared LS tranny on a setup like that, then it's going to take you longer to reach the engine's powerband, and therefore make you slower. Yes, the longer gears do allow you to stay in boost longer (which is the reason that most people give for using the LS tranny), but it also means you're going to be slower getting to VTEC and maximum boost, so does it really matter? PLUS, with long gears, you might actually drop out of your powerband when you shift, especially on a VTEC motor (like I said, the purpose of the transmission gearing is to keep the motor in its powerband between shifts).

    My thinking is that it's probably best to use whatever transmission was originally paired with the motor when putting together a turbo setup. If I was boosting a GSR, or LS/VTEC for instance, I certainly wouldn't downgrade to an LS tranny. It probably also depends a lot on what turbo you're using, as some of them will spool up and reach maximum boost faster than others. I guess what I'm saying is you have to look at it on an individual basis; I don't think you can make a definitive rule that longer-geared transmissions are ALWAYS the best choice for turbo setups.

    Does that make sense? I'm not trying to be a dick here, I'm just explaining my line of thought.

    And yes, I am aware of the GSR and B16 automatics, but they're not common at all here in the States. Since the OP is a newbie to Hondas (he stated this in his first post), the automatic LS tranny (which really really sucks) is probably the most familiar to him. I just wanted to point out that a manual tranny would be preferable to the LS automatic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2007
  18. konzine

    konzine New Member

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    Wow, Second day posting and I already started an up-roar! Oh i'm going to have fun here :).

    Ok so let me set out What I have in mind and you guys can argue about it lol!

    I am thinking the LS-Vtec. Why? Well, I have heard a lot of good things about the b18 Block, and also how well the b16 Head flows. Of course, I am going to want vtec because let's face it, it is a honda. Turbo, Yes down the road I am 100% sure I am going to slap one on you bet ya. I don't like Automatics, so I doubt I'd be getting one. As per top speed, Im not a HUGE speed junkie, I am more of a get-up-go kind of guy... What does that mean? Well, you may have a top speed of 140, and I may of 110, But I want to be able to hit 110 twice as fast as the dude beside me.

    Hope that makes since, Soooo whats the best tranny for this set up? Thanks guys!
     
  19. konzine

    konzine New Member

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    Just for everyone else wondering about doing an LS/V-Tec, Here is an Excellent Write up by PissedOffSol :

    http://hondaswap.com/general-tech-articles/assembling-ls-vtec-32829/

    God d@mn this is not going to be cheap! it's almost as I should buy a b16 engine and a b18 just to do this!! Oh well, I'll find the pieces some how :D.

    EDIT :

    After searching the market I found these, Any good?

    GoldEagleMfg.Com - LS/V-tec Conversion kit (The b18 is 81.00mm Right?!)
    B18b Pistons (God I hope these are right.. 500 bucks Sh*t!)


    whats else??!

     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2007
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