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B16A1 over fuelling

Discussion in 'Civic and CRX - EF' started by BONNARSKI, Oct 27, 2012.

  1. BONNARSKI

    BONNARSKI New Member

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    My crx has been suffering from what i think is dizzy issues, it would loose spark every so often then it lost it all together, but after alot of building dizzys from D16 internals etc i now have the car making spark again but now it seems to be over fuelling.

    The engine cranks, pops every so often but won't start. When the plugs are took out, cleaned and dried then put back into the engine it tries to start but then goes back to just cranking. When the plugs are removed they are very wet so i'm thinking the fuel is drowning the spark, so when the plugs are cleaned and dried the car tries to start as theres less fuel on the plugs for the first few cycles, thus tries to start.

    The engine is on the timing top and bottom, the dizzy is also spot on. The dizzy has been rebuilt using new D16 sensors on a B16A1 shaft in the B16a1 casing. All the sensor gaps are as close as can be without hitting. There are no fault codes on the ECU either.

    I'm running out of ideas with this.

    Anybody help?
     
  2. BONNARSKI

    BONNARSKI New Member

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    Tried a good set of spark plugs in it today and it's doing the same as when i clean and dry the original plugs.

    When the plugs are dry, i crank the engine and it gives two loud bangs out the exhaust then just cranks. Then when the plugs are removed they are all soaking with fuel.

    This to me shows that when the plugs are dry they aren't wet enough to flood so give the bangs but the bangs are far too loud which shows too much fuel.

    Would either a problem with the dizzy or the ecu make it over fuel to this degree?
     
  3. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    Make sure your timing isn't 180-out. you may be feeding the spark to the wrong part of the cycle.
     
  4. BONNARSKI

    BONNARSKI New Member

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    Thge timing is spot on and the engine didn't give any indication if jumping timing like and noises or vibrations, it just lost spark.

    I've no tried the original dizzy with new sensors, re-checked the plug wires and their order, checked and bypassed the main relay and tried another ecu but still no change.

    It still is putting up no cel codes so what can this be?
     
  5. BONNARSKI

    BONNARSKI New Member

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    Update so far -

    Found out the ecu i was given is bad, plug it in and the main relay clicks but no fuel pump action. Plug mines back in and all works as it should.

    Just recently found out that there is a difference between the crank wheels in the OBD0 and OBD1/2 dizzy's. Might seem and obvious mistake to some but i have never came across any info on this in over a year of looking about Honda distributors online.

    So built another with a good ICM and my ecu put up CEL 8, TDC sensor, so replaced it but still no go.

    WTF?
     
  6. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    EF swaps seem to be a little tricky. I'm no expert. But....I would think that the ECU, Dizzy, injectors, need to be the same OBD. Maybe the crank position sensor too? Sorry....just spit balling here.
     
  7. BONNARSKI

    BONNARSKI New Member

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    Thanks for the reply, your on the same lines as i'm thinking but i can't see much difference in the sensors so i tried swapping the wires about but no good.

    It's been a good while since i was up at the car and if i remember right it lost sparks again.

    I'm trying one more time then it's being pulled out of the shed lol
     
  8. Dual-500

    Dual-500 Well-Known Member VIP

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    Distributor and ECU need to be the same OBD generation. They changed the postition sensor resolution in the later models - i.e. more pulses per crank or cam revolution. As such the ECU can't synchronize if distributor and ECU aren't matched up correctly.
     
  9. BONNARSKI

    BONNARSKI New Member

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    Your right there lad, i only found this out just after i got a lend of a OBD2 dizzy.

    I'm running the original dizzy with a TDC sensor from a new OBD1 dizzy. I shouldn't think there will be any difference between the sensors plus i tried the two TDC wires both ways but still no good.

    Also the ECU is OBD0 PW0 and is also from the original car like the dizzy.

    Didn't get to work on the car yet, having to re-wire a tractor instead lol
     
  10. Dual-500

    Dual-500 Well-Known Member VIP

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    OBD0 & OBD1 are not compatible - I know this from doing a JDM OBD1 engine with OBD1 distributor into a formerly OBD0 1991 hatchback.

    Going from memory the cyl pos sensor triggers the injectors, not the TDC. TDC is used for reference during the start cycle.

    You'll figure it out.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, wires reversed on the rotational sensors will cause problems. They are Edge Triggered in the ECU on a polarized transition.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  11. sik yellow rex

    sik yellow rex New Member

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    post a pic of the engine bay i would like too see something
     
  12. |Chaz|

    |Chaz| Well-Known Member VIP

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    I would just try and find a distributor from a junk yard car. Or buy a new one. Save yourself a lot of hassle.
     
  13. BONNARSKI

    BONNARSKI New Member

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    So i'm sticking with my new years resolution and fitted all new sensors into the B16A1 dizzy casing and tried it on the car.

    The car now tries to start but it then give two big bangs so i turn the ignition off.

    It seems like timing but the engine is timed up perfect and has never moved and i've tried advancing and retarding the dizzy position but still the same.

    Any ideas people?
     
  14. CAFROG

    CAFROG Honda Minion VIP

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    Just to clarify....please inform us....what OBD is the ECU, Dizzy, and Injectors?

    Also....any check engine light codes now?
     
  15. BONNARSKI

    BONNARSKI New Member

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    All the wiring, ECU, dizzy, injectors are all the original OBD0 that came with the car, i only changed the bare engine.
     
  16. BONNARSKI

    BONNARSKI New Member

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    I finally got a dizzy built up using new sensors and ignitor but it's still not running right.

    When it's just started, whether hot or cold, it will start on three cylinders until given a steady rev until i can hear it come back on all four.
    When it does come on all four it immediately puts up the ABS and CEL light with the code 9 for cylinder sensor coming up on the ecu.

    Also it doesn't seem to be coming on V-Tec as sharply or loudly as before, the only other thing i put back on the car was the standard exhaust manifold due to the 4-2-1 stainless mani i was using hadn't the two O2 sensors in it.

    I am going to check and change the CYL sensor today but would that be the only problem? I don't see how the CYL sensor would effect the ABS.

    Hope somebody can help ......
     
  17. Dual-500

    Dual-500 Well-Known Member VIP

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    Wiring? Check all the grounds at the thermostat on the engine. Check the braided grounds to the tranny or block from the chassis also. Remove bolts and inspect mechanical condition of ground wires for corrosion, frayed wires, etc.

    If that doesn't correct problem, check harness from distributor to ECU. Make sure you check out the disconnect on the RH wheel well.
     
  18. BONNARSKI

    BONNARSKI New Member

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    All the earths are ok, i even fitted more straight to the battery.

    I haven't tested the loom from dizzy to ecu yet but i'll try fitting the old crank sensor to see if that helps.
     
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