B16A2 head build....(prepare for some long wind)

[Luis998]

haha....looks like I may have just posted all of that information for nothing. I just found an article that makes SuperTech seem like crap. Then again, that's only one piece of information. Actual statements from people that have used their components would be more useful.

 

[Luis998]

These are some other bronze valve guides I am considering. IL4 Bronze Valve Guides

 

[Luis998]

IL4's a reputable shop.

I seem to remember people over on Honda-Tech.com running Omni valves.

I'll have to look on H-T then, because I can not find valves made by Omni. In fact, the only ones that I have found are made by SuperTech. How would they compare to PortFlow and OmniPower (two which you do endorse) as far as quality. All of these are priced close together, however; SuperTech offers the best package as far as price and includes valves with their package. It would make sense to me to go with an entire valve train package and valves from the same company.

It's a lot of fun multi-tasking between sites. I go from here to H-T to TurboD16, to D-Series.org depending on what I am looking for as far as information is concerned.

It's a hard thing to do, but I'd like to make up my mind on which valve train to go with so that I can move on. Never the less, this is half the fun as far as learning and researching goes.

You know, I wonder how many people are taking notes off this post. haha It's getting a lot of hits, yet no one else seems to want to chime in.

 

[Luis998]

Omni Power USA, Inc - Still Going

Valves and valve springs don't really have to match. With valve springs and cams it's a good idea because you know that they were designed to work together as far as lift and duration.

Thanks once again, Scott. That makes it much easier on deciding on valves. We talked about PortFlow before being a good vavle train, but how would I find out if they would be the right choice for my cams? Also, SuperTech, how do they measure up? The only reason I keep on bring up SuperTech is because they offer a good deal on the entire valve train, including valves. Then again, if it's crap, I do not want it. The only time I deal with crap is when I ...umm, lets forget I mentioned that.

Do Nitride coated valves really make a difference?

And out of sheer, morbid curiosity, for all of the other 500+ viewers of the thread, you do know that I would welcome your insight as well. haha Don't be scared, Scott won't bite...much....unless provoked. If you mess with him I'll be forced to ram a tube down your throat, pull the pin on the grenade I'm holding now and make you go boom. This also goes if you ignore his freakin'advice! Then again I'm sure we would both enjoy watching your engine blow up over a cold one. haha!

 

[Luis998]

I know that OmniPower and PortFlow make good valves and a good valve train. With that said, what about SuperTech? Does anyone know about them? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[LS_VTEC]

Ferrea

 

[Luis998]

Ferrea

*sigh* I wish I had the money for Ferrea. They make such great stuff. Believe me, if I get the money for that I will get Ferrea. For now, I was looking for another quality valve train and valves. Do you know anything about SuperTech, LS? They have the best "priced package" it seems. Then again, I'm not wanting to skimp out, cut corners, and slack on buying quality products. I would just like to get the best bang for my buck.

 

[90_EF_Hatch]

hmmm ... if you cant get much info on Supertech i wouldnt risk it, i would go with something that is proven good and has a lot of information and support, because like you said, you dont wanna skimp out on anything and want it done right the first time.

Just my .02

 

[Luis998]

hmmm ... if you cant get much info on Supertech i wouldnt risk it, i would go with something that is proven good and has a lot of information and support, because like you said, you dont wanna skimp out on anything and want it done right the first time.

Just my .02

You know what my friend, you have a very good point. I've only read one thing on SuperTech and it has been negative. Your two cents really made a lot of sense. Thanks again.

 

[LS_VTEC]

*sigh* I wish I had the money for Ferrea. They make such great stuff. Believe me, if I get the money for that I will get Ferrea. For now, I was looking for another quality valve train and valves. Do you know anything about SuperTech, LS? They have the best "priced package" it seems. Then again, I'm not wanting to skimp out, cut corners, and slack on buying quality products. I would just like to get the best bang for my buck.

Supertech is junk in my opinion. Ferrea is my #1 choice. I'm not a big fan of skunk2 but its decent. If your on a budget and want somewhat decent valvetrain components than go with Manley.

 

[Luis998]

Supertech is junk in my opinion. Ferrea is my #1 choice. I'm not a big fan of skunk2 but its decent. If your on a budget and want somewhat decent valvetrain components than go with Manley.

That's what I'm learning, hence, I will not be going with SuperTech.

Ferrea seems to be at number one, but paying $600 just for springs nowadays is not a very feasible option. Trust me, if I could, I would get them without thinking about it twice.

That seems to be the general consensus on Skunk2's valve train, hence why I won't be going with them either. I figured that part out a lot time ago.

Tell me more about Manley if you get the chance.

Right now PortFlow and OmniPower are the front runners for my build. Either or seems like a great choice. I will have to research Manley and compare them to these two.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Luis998]

Sad update....

I just ran into yet another road block. The school I was going to just set me up on a payment plan to pay back the loan I got there. For the next six months I'm going to have to shell out an additional $200 every month, which means my acquiring parts and what have you may have just come to a screeching halt. I was doing so damn well too, especially since I almost had a full B16 and have a full Z6 for my D build. Now is the time where I research a lot and ask questions. That way as soon as I am able to start back up on buying things, it's Miller Time!

Something will give though, and that something will be my finding a second job for a few months to help things out. I WILL complete my build. Like I said before, I did give myself a year on it, and so far, I'm farther than I figured I would be at this point.

First things first. Come my next paycheck the head will be hopefully going into the machine shop for a well deserved "bath" and dismantling.

 

[Luis998]

I know that if I use the head on a B16 block it would require B16 ARP bolts. What if I used it on a B18C? Would the head studs have to be for a B18C or a B16?

The reason I am asking this is because, though I have an almost complete B16 block with Eagle Rods, I was contemplating selling that and finding a complete B18C block. Why you ask? Well, it would make more power, even if the head were bolted on straight up (since it is a 1.6 vs. a 1.8) and two, I see more possibilities out of it. The beauty of it is that since I am taking a while for my build, I don't have to decide anything right now. I am just contemplating different ideas. I know that this would be a "poor man's Type R" but that's not what I'm going after. I figure that after having the head work completely done, even on stock bottom end internals (which God help me if I leave anything stock for more than five seconds) the power would be greater.

I wonder, is there a downside to this? Should I be worried about the R/S at all? I know that there are more details I will need to know when and if I get to this point. Perhaps I'm just spewing out ideas out of frustration. That's all for now my friends.

 

[newb]

Let me take a crack at your head stud question. In the ARP catalog, which i have in my hands right now, there are three different B-series vtec part numbers. First there is GSR with P/N 208-4304, than there is B16A with P/N 208-4601, finally there is B20B w/B16A head with P/N 208-4306. Unfortunatly there is no further info to tell the differences between them. Ive always been told that with an LS/Vtec, no matter which head, use GSR studs. That leads me to believe that required height for both would be the same. One thought, maybe the distance the stud threads into the block varies, changing the required length, but I do not know. My best guess would be that the GSR and B16 head studs are the same, but thats only a guess. Maybe someone else would care to correct my thoughts or add to this? Good luck finding more info though.

 

[Luis998]

I'm not sure about the head stud question.

If you're going to tell the block, pull the pistons out and sell the pistons/rods and block separately. You'll make more money that way.

The R/S ratio will be fine. Like I always tell people, those Japanese guys in the funny little white lab coats over at Honda really know what they're doing.

Thanks once again, Scott. I'll look around to see how much a block is selling for and use that as a guide. I'm not sure if the pistons are still in there, since it does have the Eagle Rods.

What things would have to be done different in making a B16head and a B18C block work together harmoniously? I know that the timing belt, water pump and something else have to be the same, but I'm wondering if it would be any more difficult doing a build like this than a regular B16 build.

 

[Luis998]

Let me take a crack at your head stud question. In the ARP catalog, which i have in my hands right now, there are three different B-series vtec part numbers. First there is GSR with P/N 208-4304, than there is B16A with P/N 208-4601, finally there is B20B w/B16A head with P/N 208-4306. Unfortunatly there is no further info to tell the differences between them. Ive always been told that with an LS/Vtec, no matter which head, use GSR studs. That leads me to believe that required height for both would be the same. One thought, maybe the distance the stud threads into the block varies, changing the required length, but I do not know. My best guess would be that the GSR and B16 head studs are the same, but thats only a guess. Maybe someone else would care to correct my thoughts or add to this? Good luck finding more info though.

Thanks man. I really appreciate the insight. From what I have heard, you are right as far as using the GSR studs, which would answer my question. The B16 studs would be too short to go on a GSR block. With that said, lets see which block I 100% end up going with, a B16, which I already have or a GSR.

 

[Luis998]

From what I have just learned, Nitride coated valves are good, if you get them coated after a three or five angle valve job. They should not be coated before. Does anyone know anything about that?

Also, from what I understand, over sized valves provide a better seal and allow for more power to be made later on. Is that really the case? I'm wondering if I should go with over sized, since later on I may want to increase my power goals. If I did, would a .5 or 1.0 over size valve work better and why?

 

[Luis998]

Is putting your head (not the one connected to your neck bone) on a flowbench really worth it for this kind of build or would that be better suited for the pros trying to make as much horsepower from their build?

 

[Luis998]

Here's a good topic for you; Question about Oversize Valves: Nissan & Infiniti Engineering Talk: Nissan Forums / Infiniti Forums - NICOclub

If you get your head ported, you should most definitely spend the $45 to get it flowbenched. That will tell you how the head flows at a given RPM and valve lift.

Awesome man. Thanks for the link.

I will definitely do that when I get my head ported. I'm sure the machinist will let me know how that will help me out later on.

 

[Luis998]

What does the term "tulip" mean when it refers to the valves?

By the way all, the link Blanco posted Question about Oversize Valves: Nissan & Infiniti Engineering Talk: Nissan Forums / Infiniti Forums - NICOclub will really help answer questions about over sized valves and any advantages/disadvantages for you. It did for me anyways.