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B18 Build

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by Treezy, May 23, 2008.

  1. Treezy

    Treezy Evasive Illusions

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    I'm looking to build a B18 engine from the block up and I'm looking for some input from experienced performance builders. I purchased an LS engine for cheap and am in the process of stripping it down to bare. I'm not looking for knock-off or OEM+ parts.. Right now, I'm looking to run it up to Stage 2 with the best parts available to get me solid. The car it will be put in after it's done is an EG coupe.
    The head will be my first work done and I'm taking my time to ensure it's all done the way I want it. After I'm done with the head, I'll start picking up the accessories for the engine, then build the block since I plan on putting some serious cash in a lump sum to get it right. I've looked at several companies for sleeving, etc.. and most people are recommending AEBS over darton for their titanium t-sleeves. Will definitely be running over-bore, just not sure how much yet.
    Okay, now to the head questions... What head should I use for the max potential on my block? What internal components? I've looked at many and I like the Skunk2 internals so far. PnP will be done, any other recommendations?
     
  2. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    You need to provide some more more information. You didn't list any of your goals for this engine besides "I want to build it up good"...

    Do you have a specific power output in mind? Specific quarter mile time maybe? Is it going to be an N/A build? Turbo? Supercharger?

    Answer some of those questions and then we can help you better...
     
  3. LightWeightChamp

    LightWeightChamp Honda FTW!

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    be a man.... brian crower 2.2l stroker. ha or just build, cp pistons, eagle rods, crower valve springs and retainers, cams, balance crank.
     
  4. Turbo&Auto

    Turbo&Auto Nick Go FAST!!

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    What is run it up to stage 2? :lol:
     
  5. Treezy

    Treezy Evasive Illusions

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    Okay.. since my comp kicked me off after I wrote a bunch of stuff and I'm not gonna re-write it all, here's the jist.. "running it up to stage 2" meant its stock and I was looking to build it as a stage 2. I've looked at the stroker and I definitely like what they have, but I also like the Skunk2 as well, thats why I'm asking for opinions. And I do apologize about not giving better info. This build is pretty much an open build with no firm set goals. I want to assemble the best parts I can and then boost from there.
    Here are some paramiters to go on: An LS block fully worked by AEBS, bored to 84mm w/titanium sleeves, cp pistons, and boosted to around 20psi. Nothing is set in stone as I still have yet to buy any parts for the build. Do I stay with the same head and swap the internals, or do I put a different head on and build it? What would give me more power in the end?
     
  6. Marky Mark

    Marky Mark New Member

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    if this is an OVER THE TOP build then why are you starting with an ls block???
     
  7. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Why not, if it's being completely built?
     
  8. Luis998

    Luis998 Honda Enthusiast

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    My thoughts exactly. There is nothing wrong with an LS block or a fully built LS for that matter. I like the fact that he will most likely end up sleeving it.

    Let us know how much the sleeving runs you, by the way and who does it for you.

    Good luck on your build. :thumbsup:
     
  9. Treezy

    Treezy Evasive Illusions

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    The last quote I got from AEBS for my sleeving, honing, etc.. was about $1,200 + block shipping. Now, that's been a couple months ago so it may be slightly different. I also don't believe it included the price of boring it over. Unless someone has a reason why not to go with them, or info on someone better, then that's who I'll be doing business with. I'm still looking for opinions on head parts though. So far, I've had a lot of people say to go with the skunk2 setup.. only one or two have even mentioned the stroker.., and that's it. First thing's first.. Which head should I run with? Most people around here that are using ls bottom-ends are just throwing a gsr head on and boosting.., but they're not doing the extensive foundation work I'm looking to do. Is the gsr head my best bet, or is there something that, fully worked, will benefit my engine build more?
     
  10. Luis998

    Luis998 Honda Enthusiast

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    Good call on AEBS. I have heard nothing but good things from them.

    I will personally be going with a B16 head, which I already have. Why? It flows better. Heck, if you really want to know, feel free to click the link in my sig and check out my thread.

    As far as Skunk2 goes, I would recommend staying away from their valve train, i.e.: springs and retainers. From what I have learned during my research, people have told me that their valve trains tend to "crack under pressure" so to speak. Ferrea, PortFlow and OmniPower are some popular choices, all of which have seen very good reviews.

    Again, the head is your preference. You could even use the LS head with different cams and valve train. If you want VTEC then you will obviously have to use either a B16 or a GSR head.

    What are your power goals, by the way? That would also help things out is to have a goal you would like to achieve. Also, are you trying to build a N/A, turbo or supercharger build like Brutal asked? These are questions that when answered will help others give advice on your build a lot easier.
     
  11. Treezy

    Treezy Evasive Illusions

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    Thanks for the info on skunk2.. I'm looking to turbo-charge it to 20psi+. As for power goals, I understand the importance of having them, but I'm not trying to limit myself to getting parts that will put me into a certain powerband based solely on thats what my goals are. I'm looking for the best parts available and nothing less. I'm guesstimating that with the current idea of specs I have, I'll probably be in the 450hp range when I'm done, give or take. I know I can raise my boost, but when would I need to start putting stage 3 parts on? If I can achieve 500whp on stage 2 parts then I will stick with my current plans. If not, then I may need to start eye-balling some stage 3's.
     
  12. newb

    newb phresh VIP

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    You need to set a power goal. Once you do that youll be able to pick your parts easier. Also, PSI is irrelevant. You need to pick a turbo based on HP goals, not how much boost it will run. For 450 or even 500 horse, those titanium sleeves are not needed. The only reason I say this is bacause if you go with a steel sleeve youll be able to save some money for other parts.
     
  13. Treezy

    Treezy Evasive Illusions

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    The engine is being built to bolster a show car. After building her for show and winning some trophies I decided to tear it all apart and start building the engine. I'm going all the way because I personally won't settle for less. I do realize that T-sleeves aren't necessary at the level I'll be running when I'm done with the initial build, but I'm doing this as a long-term project. With those goals in mind, I'm investing my money now to keep from having to constantly tear the engine apart and upgrade everything, especially the block. I guess that goes back to the whole "building your house on sand thing.." for me. The plan right now is a year on the engine, then another year to finish out my show toys. After that she becomes my dog and pony while I start the next build.
    As for HP goals, the statement of 450-500whp is easily achievable with the modifications I'm doing and that's where I pulled the number from. Let's say for the moment that I want to go to 600whp on the engine I'm building.. What recommendations would you give me for stepping up that extra 100-150whp over what I'm already looking to run?
     
  14. Luis998

    Luis998 Honda Enthusiast

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    Lets start from the bottom and work our way up. Obviously if you are going to be pushing that much power, you are also going to want to control it and definitely stop. With that in mind, a brake upgrade is definitely called for, as well as suspension and every suspension, strut, tie bar and all in between in order to stiffen your chasis.

    If I may recommend a brake system upgrade, check out Wilwood. They offer a full front and rear upgrade with 11" rotors..etc. etc. etc.
     
  15. newb

    newb phresh VIP

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    Werd, you gotta make sure that power can make it to the ground, and you gotta be able to control it, or else youll have troubles. As for your 600HP goal, Id still go with a steel sleeve. Theres a car near me that make a lil over 600HP on Golden Eagle HD sleeves and he hasnt had any problems at all. From there a good set of rods and pistons will tie the bottom end off. A GSR style, or similar aftermarket, main girdle isnt a bad idea either.
     
  16. Treezy

    Treezy Evasive Illusions

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    I fully agree with my needing to build the suspension and upgrade my brake system. I've been looking at Wilwood, Brembo, etc.., as well as looking into doing the rear-wheel disc swap. As for the suspension, my original plan prior to getting the engine was a full skunk2 suspension. I was about 2 weeks away from getting the shocks, struts, and camber kits to start when this engine dropped in my lap. Being ever flexible, I decided to build the engine first, starting with the head. After the head is complete, I will move on to all of the other supporting components.., from cam gears to the tranny and fuel to suspension. Right around the time I'm done picking up these parts I'll be ready to start the final stage of my build which is the block. After it's put together, then the rest will just need to be mounted together and I'll be ready for the swap. Thats why I'm asking for opinions on parts, specifically for the head(since I'm doing it first). Luis, thanks for the info on the skunk springs and retainers. I checked into the alternatives you listed and omnipower and portflow both looked good. I'm also looking for a place to do my PnP now. Newb, you mentioned adding a GSR style main girdle.. Would you recommend I stay with the LS head and run with performance internals, go to a B18C or a B16 head for VTEC?

    As it stands now, I'm looking at Crower or Omnipower for the valvetrain.. Has anyone else heard anything good or bad about either?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2008
  17. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Crower is good stuff! :thumbsup:

    Omni-Power makes decent suspension components for fairly cheap. I've never heard anything about how their valve train pieces hold up...
     
  18. Luis998

    Luis998 Honda Enthusiast

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    First of all, you're very welcome my friend. It's my pleasure to help out. :thumbsup: After learning what I did about Skunk2's valve train I would definitely warn everyone else about it.

    Brutal is right about Crower. They make good stuff.

    You remind me a lot of me. haha I'm kind of multi-tasking on my build. As I buy more components here and there (I already have everything I want for the block minus the pistons and have the B16 head) I am building up my cars bottom end at the same time. If I may make a suggestion, while you can go with the LS head, build it up and be happy, if you were to decide to go with a VTEC head, I would strongly suggest the B16. Out of the two VTEC heads you mentioned, it is the better flowing one. Still, if a GSR head were to fall on your lap for a good price, I would definitely pick it up. You will NOT regret having an LS/VTEC in my opinion. Again, keep in mind that these are just my opinions that come from what I have read about and researched. I don't ever want to make you feel that what I say IS what should always be done. :D

    You do seem to have your ducks in a row so far. Just keep doing your research and you will go a long way. If you would like more information on a head build, my thread was mostly dedicated to the building of a B16 head...with a bit of humor in it too. :D Just click on the link in my signature and you will be able to get to it. I do, however; suggest looking around the site for more information on different types of head builds, as you will get different ideas from all.
     
  19. newb

    newb phresh VIP

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    To the OP, I would also suggest an LS/V setup. They have a lot of bad rep beacuase ppl just like to slap em togather, and then they wonder why the motor didnt hold up. As long as you cover all your bases and dont get cheap knock off parts youll be very happy.

    Luis998, you're right the B16 head does flow better, but only slightly. The difference is minimal enough that you wont see any real gains in power with one head over the other. Here is a thread from another forum with flow charts from both heads.

    GSR vs. B16 Head Comparisons. - B20Vtec.Com...... B Series and Beyond

    Also, this is a good site to get info from for anyone really interested in LS/V's or B20/V's.
     
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  20. Luis998

    Luis998 Honda Enthusiast

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    Hey newb, thanks for the VERY informative link! :thumbsup: Enjoy the rep. :D

    I off hand the the biggest difference between the two heads is that the GSR head has smaller combustion chambers. With that said, I am going to check out newb's link and learn more. :D
     
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