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b18 vs h22

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by hijaf, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. hijaf

    hijaf New Member

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    i got a 97 dx hatch had it for a year bored with it need help choosing a new engine this is my first swap

    what is an easier swap?
     
  2. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    b18 by far is easier.
     
  3. hijaf

    hijaf New Member

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    are there any resources i could read i have a while to research and would like to know my whole game plan before jumping in

    also i appreciate the help in advance
     
  4. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    Hit up the reference section. There are articles there on how to swap a B-series engine into a Civic. Either that, or just hit up Google. This is a pretty common subject and there are lots of write-ups out there...
     
  5. hijaf

    hijaf New Member

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    k ill look into the reference section thanks for the help
     
  6. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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  7. asim666

    asim666 New Member

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    do let us know which engine u chose and what attracted u towards it.
     
  8. willb2305

    willb2305 New Member

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    yup b18c5 is a good motor for the hatch. h22 is nice too but probably 200 to 300lbs heavier then a b18 motor.
     
  9. h22hizzie

    h22hizzie New Member

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    nope the h is only 60 pounds more im pretty sure
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. DESPAIN

    DESPAIN yep....mmhhm.......yep...

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    its a honda not a mack truck!......
     
  11. TheBlur

    TheBlur New Member

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    Preference and budget is gonna be what decides your motor. You'd have to specify what B18...The ITR and CTR motors are the cream of the crop of the B18 series, high output and decent torque and have a High Redline, however, as them domestics say, there is no replacement for displacement. The H motor is a TORQUE MONSTER, and if you're blessed enough to come across a Type S or SIR H-Series motor you enjoy 200+ Hp @ the wheels off the gate and at least around here, the H-Series motors including the JDM's are CHEAPER then the ITR or CTR motor's..however, swapping in the B will be far easier as said.

    If I had to chose and was able to just HAVE any of em? I'd probably take the H, it's like dropping in a K20 but FAR cheaper, and getting BIG HP and TORQUE with the H is a bit easier.
     
  12. BrutalB83

    BrutalB83 Brutal Moderator Moderator VIP

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    200 at the wheels? I don't think so. Try 200 at the crank, so more like 160-170 horses to the wheels...

    If you factor in the cost of mounts, plus either modifying the shifter tunnel to accept the H22's transmission or buying an adaptor plate to make a B-series transmission work, then the H22 really isn't cheaper then any other swap. In fact, it may end up being MORE expensive...

    How is it easier to make big horse and torque on an H over the B-series engines? The B-series engines are pretty stout. They can typically stand up to boost better then the H22 with it's FRM sleeves...
     
  13. TheBlur

    TheBlur New Member

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    200 at the wheels? I don't think so. Try 200 at the crank, so more like 160-170 horses to the wheels...[/quote]

    EVEN STILL, as a base number that's MORE then you're getting at the wheel for an ITR or CTR, so props granted to you on the Douche-Move correction, but the fact that the H's output to the wheel in base is higher then the others under the same circumstance..




    It's speculation, that would depend TOTALLY on the prices in his area against the charge for labor..if he's doing Labor himself that would DRASTICALLY cut the price down and yet again make the H look like an appealing swap. HERE you can get a JDM H22 motor no trans for not even a stack, and that's IF you go BUY it from one of several local engine depot's, Private sellers in this area are SHITTING H-blocks becuase they prefer B's or K's, which makes them even EASIER to attain..



    TYPICALLY...if you take two motors..one with 120 at the wheel and another with 170 at the wheel before mods..and DO THE SAME BOLT ON for each motor while tuning them to their unique characteristics, the Motor with the HIGHER BASE will logically MAINTAIN the margin between them, and the max potential on BIGGER displacement motors superceed those of the smaller, if that was the case nobody would be attempting to BORE their 1.8's to 2.0's or their 2.0's out to 2.2's..DISPLACEMENT will ALWAYS equal more power and more power potential.
     
  14. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    I dont usually do this kinda shit, but I'm gonna since you seem to have been butt hurt by brutal.

    1) He was offering a different and still correct point of view on this scenario.

    So he didn't agree with what you said, it DOES NOT require being an even bigger douche bag about the whole thing.

    2) You're same bolt on theory shows merit but is ultimately flawed due to the fact that you can find more selection for a b-series motor and most of the bolt on mods for the b-series are better researched because the demand is higher for those products than they are for h-series motors. Even if the same company makes the part and markets it the same, I'd put money on the fact you get a better % out of the b-series product

    3) had you read his post, you would also have noticed that he was not ignoring the fact that there is 'no replacement for displacement'. He actually sited the biggest reason to go with the B-Series over the H. The fucking sleeves on an H22 are shit. 2 Companies (that I know of) make after market pistons for them, and even with those pistons, it does not leave a lot of room for error in your tuning (I'm speaking of forced induction, like brutal).


    Your knowledge is appreciated on this forum, but don't get your panties in a wad when someone corrects you. We're trying to provide accurate information on this forum, and it's Brutal's job to correct you exactly like he did. Just retain the information and use it again if you'd like to answer someone else's question.
     
  15. TheBlur

    TheBlur New Member

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    Granted..I don't mind being corrected..still, Can't help to feel like he was being a DOUCHE admist doing it..

    Anyway...


    "2) You're same bolt on theory shows merit but is ultimately flawed due to the fact that you can find more selection for a b-series motor and most of the bolt on mods for the b-series are better researched because the demand is higher for those products than they are for h-series motors. Even if the same company makes the part and markets it the same, I'd put money on the fact you get a better % out of the b-series product" -- So you're making the argument that you can BUILD a B-Series up further then you could an H series because there is a wider parts base for the B-Series? I HALFWAY agree with you on that but..

    I've Seen and used CAMS for an H Series..
    Valve Springs.
    Pistons
    Rods
    Valves
    Retainers
    Cambrears
    Intake Manifolds
    Exaust Headers
    Fuel Rails
    Ruel Pumps
    Ect, ect..

    Basically EVERY PART you can get for a B-Series, I've SEEN or used it applied in an H-Series motor, so I don't know how sturdy that theory is gonna hold up but the odds are that if you go part for part, mod for mod on BOTH MOTORS with the only difference being the fine tuning or applicable methods of installation, THE H-SERIES is gonna come out on top.

    "3) had you read his post, you would also have noticed that he was not ignoring the fact that there is 'no replacement for displacement'. He actually sited the biggest reason to go with the B-Series over the H. The fucking sleeves on an H22 are shit. 2 Companies (that I know of) make after market pistons for them, and even with those pistons, it does not leave a lot of room for error in your tuning (I'm speaking of forced induction, like brutal)." ----That's NOT true. FRM sleeves are STRONGER then IRON Sleeves, it's just that the use of forged PISTONS..hell not even pistons, RINGS of a particular material DO NOT do well with them as they gouge the walls out. TEMPTED AS I AM TO TRY IT..I'd wager that if someone was to Run FORGED PISTONS with FRM compatible PISTON RINGS, they'd straight up and down avoid that whole little problem all out...I have a spare h22 long block, i just may give it a whirl



    All i'm saying is..If you can cut the cost down...Mostly by doing the LABOR yourself, the H-Comes off LESS expensive then a K, and probably DEAD EQUAL to a CTR or ITR swap while still being more difficult to drop in the latter, I mean c'mon K-Series motors go for 5 grand a pop in most areas, CTR's and ITR' engines are as rare as an owls tooth and don't fall to far behind them in prices..you can go into a junkyard and snatch an H out around here or BUY the motor around here for less then a stack, do the work yourself, keep CHILTONS on deck and with exellent information gathering and pricing swap it in yourself..I spent approximately $1500 bucks TOTAL for my JDMh22a swap that includes the price of the mounts, the rest I did on my own. You won't find a CTR or ITR swap for NEAR, nevermind LESS then that amount, and it's still cost effective?
     
  16. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    You've apparently missed anything I'm trying to say and taken everything you've ever read for some under informed ignoramus as gospel.

    It's nice to see you understand how R&D works and how tensile strength works.

    Which do you think is stronger? 3/8" of Iron or 1/8" of Fiber Reinforced Aluminum? Which do you think generates less friction? If you get the answer to the above question, you'll stop spouting the fact that the FRM sleeves are stronger than Iron Sleeves. You'll also understand why they are used in motors like the H22 and C32 (the higher end engines of the time).

    As for your 'zomg they make parts of the H22' comment, yes, they do make parts for the h22. HOWEVER, there are not as many parts to choose from and of those that are available, many do not go through as extensive an R&D process because there is no demand for the products from people that are willing to finance such research.

    You have to wonder why you see more 400HP LS motors than you do H22's. There has to be a reason. It couldn't be that the LS is cheaper and has more parts available, for a lower cost, that yield better results than the H22.

    Nope that couldn't be it.

    Coming from a Prelude owner and H22 freak, I would not recommend thinking of me as a b-series fan boy. Everyone uses a b-series for a reason.
     
  17. TheBlur

    TheBlur New Member

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    Thickness doesn't automatically warrant strength over a superior substance. Pardon my Comic Jargon but it's like your saying 1 FOOT of Stainless Steel would have more resistance to wear then 1/4" of Adamantium, negative, One metal clearly has MORE density and tensile strength per unit of mass then the other. I could very well turn around and say that ONLY 1/4" of nikasil is NEEDED to be as effective as 3/8" of Iron, The STRONGER MATERIAL (FRM in this case) Will yield greater friction, hence why the usage of ANY OL' ringset in the FRM Cylinder walls will give u bad results..

    ALL IN ALL, I think the B-Series motors have only 1 thing over the H-Series motors..They can take BOOST in Stock form ALL DAY. You don't see 400hp LS's ALL MOTOR running around here? NO, they are usually BUILT or moderately BUILT with a shit load of BOOST and GOOD TUNING thrown to them -vs- H-Series which requires sleeving before going down that route.

    I go by ALL MOTOR as a good scale to the potential of a motor...you tell me which is easier, 300-350 ALL MOTOR in a H-Series? Or 300 in a B-Series?

    ANYONE can just BOOST the hell out of it, and tune it and see astronomical numbers, that doesn't mean anything.
     
  18. B16RacerN2NR

    B16RacerN2NR Working Hard VIP

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    Reiko and Brutal have pretty much covered everything so i'd just like to point out the the CTR is not in the B18 family...
     
  19. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    Im glad you were wrong on both counts. how bout you go do a bit more reading on honda cylinder walls before you come talking to me about what's stronger than what.

    Also, you show me a 350 whp h22 that you can drive every day. that thing is gonna be running 14:1 and nitromethane and a whole shit load of other stuff to hit that number.

    g'dammit. Im still feeding the fucking troll.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. TheBlur

    TheBlur New Member

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    YOU Show me a 400 HP ALL MOTOR LS then while i'm at it since EVERYONE is building them.
     
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