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B18a1 have potential?

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by wakeboardstud13, Dec 17, 2006.

  1. wakeboardstud13

    wakeboardstud13 New Member

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    so lately ive been looking into getting a b16 put into my car but i recently got the option for a stock b18a1 for under 500 (idle problem that ill fix). so now my delema is should i keep saving for a b16 and build it? or does a b18 have potential if i build it up and tune it right? this would be my first engine swap/project and im just trying to find out what my best option would be. any imput would be awesome
     
  2. AHHVTEC

    AHHVTEC Well-Known Member VIP

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    build the b18 ls/vtec or even better turbo it
     
  3. wakeboardstud13

    wakeboardstud13 New Member

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    i dunno if i could make an LS/Vtec work especially since this is my first engine build. maybe down the road its more realistic. i might just buy a b18c for my second engine though later on down the road...like several years from now
     
  4. AHHVTEC

    AHHVTEC Well-Known Member VIP

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    well if you build the b18a right the first add a little here and there as you go there will be no need to buy any other b series
     
  5. wakeboardstud13

    wakeboardstud13 New Member

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    thats what i was thinking...add as i go along...but would it be better to wait a bit longer to get a b16 and add a little here and a little there, or does the b18 rebuilt have about as much potential?
     
  6. AHHVTEC

    AHHVTEC Well-Known Member VIP

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    its about the same once you start adding to them
     
  7. wakeboardstud13

    wakeboardstud13 New Member

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    ive been on the lookout for a b18 motor and i found one on craigslist for sale in my area but it has about 140k miles on it...is that too high to think about rebuilding?
     
  8. wakeboardstud13

    wakeboardstud13 New Member

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  9. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    I've always had an LS\VTEC money\time build guide in my head.

    Buy a B16A swap, install it.

    Buy a B18A\B block, build it on the side. Your car is still running, no down time here.

    Once the block is prepared, buy anything else necessary you can imagine yourself needing for a block swap weekend (I actually had one written out, not about to post it in it's lengthitude.... YES that's a word.. I made it, so it's real).

    Swap the block and enjoy an LS\VTEC without the hassle of down time or rushing the bottom end.

    Buying the B16A first guarantees you the availability of difficult to find parts. The B16A parts are rarer to find away from a full swap, and though they seem to be all over the place, they get expensive once they are separated from the engine.

    -The trannies are around $4-600, LS gears are okay.. but LONG
    -Great starting ECU, even functional enough to drive your new motor to the dyno.
    -Purchasing a liberated head is dangerous. I've seen a lot of mishandling with cylinder heads go on leading to damaged gasket surfaces, blown gaskets, improper function and worse. Gasket mating surfaces are crucial to keep in excellent condition. We often don't think about it when installing something like a water pump because it's easy to handle and goes straight to where it's installed. The head is heavier, more difficult to maneuver\work with (isometrics are tough), and creates this "solid" feeling, thus creating "durably inspired actions" by the handler (who is usually uneducated about engines). Basically, what I'm saying is I watch people sit bare bottomed heads where they DON'T BELONG all of the time. Never trust the person before you. An un-liberated head has a greater chance of being flatter to the CC bores.

    The deal you are getting on the B18A is basically too good to pass up, so if you get it and choose LS\VTEC, you'll have to deal with a LOT of piecing together. It's easier to find an LS block for cheap than it is to find a VTEC head (remember, there's a lot of shit on the head, intake, TB, MAP, TPS, Dizzy, rail, inj., countless items, and most heads are incomplete), better trans, ECU, etc... In fact, you may want to consider buying a B16A swap and then adding an LS block. The additional torque to be had by choosing the B18A is marginal and shouldn't be considered a selling point. Compare two of the same cars, with a B16A and a B18A, equal drivers\conditions\variables, the B16A wins more races and more KINDS of races, even POSSIBLY a q\m, but certainly not the eighth mile.

    You may want to buy the B18A anyway, for the price, you can make a lot of power just in spending the difference of a B16A swap. I thoroughly recommend the use of a VTEC head on very applicable application, as well as some route of forced induction.
     
  10. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    Over-rated by n00bs and rice boys, definitely. Over-rated? Not at all. It's one of the greatest innovations to happen yet in history for cars. The idea of having to lob profiles on one lobe and an intricate hydraulic system to switch seamlessly is just amazing. It's certainly not like when a turbo hit's boost, or when nitrous is flowing, but, it's definitely a major help for making power. Non-VTEC engines have no where near the potential (Honda v. Honda engines that is).
     
  11. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    In a 12 hr enduro, not having to refuel as often can be an advantage :D (not that they don't spend a lot of time in VTEC, but during the lower RPM sessions, they are saving SOME, lol)

    I believe there are other advantages to it in tuning and use that are beyond me to explain right now.
     
  12. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    No, you want VTEC in any street car. I guess you must be rice if you don't want driveability below 5000rpm huh? :calban:
     
  13. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    That kind of drivability problem is fine- an engine that won't idle and makes no power below the cam's working range is not.
     
  14. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    That's fine. Now get a race engine that is optimized for breathing close to 10k like a lot of the VTEC killer cams are and tune it to run smooth at 1000rpm. That's a bit tougher.
     
  15. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Yes, I agree- you can get it to run in the lower revs if you try hard enough. What I'm saying is that there is an optimum valve opening height and duration for every single rev and load point on every single engine. That's why BMW has infinitely variable valves on their top engines now- you get a fuller power curve. Sure, one of the advantages is that you get better fuel economy, but that's because the engine is more efficient at making power. More cam profiles = better for both power AND economy. On an engine with a crazy wild cam profile up top, you'll make power in the top revs- but you'll make shit for power down low. A second profile optimized for the lower revs will make more power when the big cam falls off. More variability = better. The pros run the VTEC killers because they don't need the lower revs at all.

    And yes, I do build my own engines. Just because I don't post every single little thing I do doesn't mean I don't do it. I build missiles too, but you don't see me posting up every little detail do you? The FBI wouldn't like it either.

    :)
     
  16. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    VTEC is for more then economy. hondas use small 4 bangers. the only way to make power is to rev it. having 2 different cam profiles allows you to extend your powerband. small cams and you are gonna make good power in the low end, but it will fall short in high RPM's, big cams and you make good high rpm power, but low end power will suffer. VTEC is the solution giving you the best of both worlds.

    the reason most race teams disable vtec isnt only because they dont care about gas mileage (not that they do). also its beacause they always keep the revs where they ARE making power, plus there's other advantages such as simplicity and lighter valvetrain weight.
     
  17. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    they arent wrong. building i4's is just a little different then v8's. we arent trying to paint VTEC out to be the "best invention ever" we are just refuting you painting it as worthless, which it certainly isnt.

    and about other daily driven engines... show me another production car that has a similar sized engine as the ITR that DOESNT have some sort of variable timing mechanism that makes the same power...
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2006
  18. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    yea ive seen people get pro2 cams to idle and the like, but the primary lobes are still smaller then any VTEC lobe. if you run a non-vtec setup with fairly large cams you wont have a steady idle unless you up the rpms, and you wont have good power in mid-low rpms. ill post up the graph of my build when we set vtec too low and you can see the HUGE loss of power in low rpms.

    sure, point me to them porsche engines, id like to see. a quick search for "1.8 liter porsche engines" only revealed 1 car from 1974 (about 30 years) that made a whopping 79hp.

    and how in the "motherfuck" did you get "best invention ever made" see where im going? you interpreted my post, just as i interpreted yours.
     
  19. GSRCRXsi

    GSRCRXsi Super Moderator Moderator VIP

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    idling is one thing, how much power did it have in low rpms? i guarantee it would make more power in low rpms with a smaller cam profile, but he would loose upper rpm power.

    like i said, vtec increases your power band. so you have good low rpm power and great high rpm power. race teams dont need it because they dont need the lower rpms at all. and removing it simplifies the system and reduces VT weight.

    the porsche engines i saw had a lot more displacement, which is why they had so much torque. most had more cylinders too.
     
  20. charliemopps24

    charliemopps24 Junior Member

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    I think on any car that's not a pure race car or owned by super tuners, vtec is a great luxury. Power right when i need it and fuel economy any time i want it. I personally think power adders are much better way to make power for the money invested.
     
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