B18a1 have potential?
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tuning wont give you more power in low RPMS with a high lift cam, maybe a little but you wont get as much power as with a smaller cam lobe. the flow gets fucked up. at low rpms the intake velocity isnt high enough to support a high lift cam. and power suffers as a result.
charliemopps24
Junior Member
To answer the original question, yes the b18a has potential. I am a big fan of torque. After you get used to it, then add a b16 head.
But, a b18a is a very fine engine and lots faster than your stock "d"!!!!
But, a b18a is a very fine engine and lots faster than your stock "d"!!!!
I'm a B-Series slut myself having had many D-Series throw rods and break head gaskets between normal service intervals + similar issues & a B16A that never, NEVER had a problem, with more miles on it than the D-engines. I understand every engine in the variable conditions they come in when they reach YOUR engine bay affects this significantly, but I didn't when I originally formulated my "D-Series=Shit" mentality.
Now I come back to the scene after a short hiatus and I'm reading more about D-Series potential than ever. Back in the day it was all about going B due to the D-Series generally small factory power outputs, utilization of only one Cam, and generally smaller displacements. Now all I read is the sheer potential with OE parts is staggering, let alone the achievable numbers for FRACTIONS of the cost of building a mild NA B-Series including the cost of the swap. The B-Series after-market costs more and they are more expensive just to replace the core should you learn a lesson the hard way.
However, I am now and always will stay true to the B-Series. I just have found something to ALSO tinker with in the D-Series. Both are venerable starting points for any Honda tuner.
The B18A1 has never been a favorite of mine as I'm largely in love with VTEC, which according to Blanco, may or may not all be in vain. But, it's OE and after-market support is large and readily available for not terribly much money, and locally, it's one of the cheapest B-engines to aquire (along with the B20, every other B-engine breaks into the thousands in most instances). I usually compare the B18A1 and B to the ZC. I've always wanted to play with a ZC, even if it were short lived, but there are too many good things about the B18A1 to pass up in the interest of only a ZC. It makes more torque and HP stock, if you're lucky, for almost the same price. The aftermarket support is larger, cheaper and more readily available, and the B18A itself is easier to find as a replacement for itself than the ZC is.
You must also consider the boost potential and the capability to adapt a VTEC, as well as it's raised displacement. All of which are important factors, and also, I believe it's r\s is a little nicer than the ZCs or at least that's how I remember it.
I know you aren't dealing with a choice between the B18A1 and the ZC, I was using it for comparison to help highlight all of the good factors and possibilities, but the point is, if you have one or can aquire one for a few hundred, you should take it, it's a vernerable engine with mucho potential.
Besides, it's a readily changable platform. Once again, it accepts a VTEC head, which alters your power plant quite a bit, and it's rather simple to put together a turbo, super, or Nitrous kit for. Hell, it's not even that expensive to stroke. It's an all around good "base" engine to at least start with. Even a preliminary build can improve performance with it before even choosing a final path to take with "B18" under your hood. You've got something good with a B18A, so stick to it, and go turbo
Now I come back to the scene after a short hiatus and I'm reading more about D-Series potential than ever. Back in the day it was all about going B due to the D-Series generally small factory power outputs, utilization of only one Cam, and generally smaller displacements. Now all I read is the sheer potential with OE parts is staggering, let alone the achievable numbers for FRACTIONS of the cost of building a mild NA B-Series including the cost of the swap. The B-Series after-market costs more and they are more expensive just to replace the core should you learn a lesson the hard way.
However, I am now and always will stay true to the B-Series. I just have found something to ALSO tinker with in the D-Series. Both are venerable starting points for any Honda tuner.
The B18A1 has never been a favorite of mine as I'm largely in love with VTEC, which according to Blanco, may or may not all be in vain. But, it's OE and after-market support is large and readily available for not terribly much money, and locally, it's one of the cheapest B-engines to aquire (along with the B20, every other B-engine breaks into the thousands in most instances). I usually compare the B18A1 and B to the ZC. I've always wanted to play with a ZC, even if it were short lived, but there are too many good things about the B18A1 to pass up in the interest of only a ZC. It makes more torque and HP stock, if you're lucky, for almost the same price. The aftermarket support is larger, cheaper and more readily available, and the B18A itself is easier to find as a replacement for itself than the ZC is.
You must also consider the boost potential and the capability to adapt a VTEC, as well as it's raised displacement. All of which are important factors, and also, I believe it's r\s is a little nicer than the ZCs or at least that's how I remember it.
I know you aren't dealing with a choice between the B18A1 and the ZC, I was using it for comparison to help highlight all of the good factors and possibilities, but the point is, if you have one or can aquire one for a few hundred, you should take it, it's a vernerable engine with mucho potential.
Besides, it's a readily changable platform. Once again, it accepts a VTEC head, which alters your power plant quite a bit, and it's rather simple to put together a turbo, super, or Nitrous kit for. Hell, it's not even that expensive to stroke. It's an all around good "base" engine to at least start with. Even a preliminary build can improve performance with it before even choosing a final path to take with "B18" under your hood. You've got something good with a B18A, so stick to it, and go turbo
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Scorchin Civic
Senior Member
Don't know where the hell you pulled that bullshit from? I guess you must never had you ass handed to you by someone with a non-vtec build. Wish you was in my city cause I would show you a thing or two.
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MikeBergy
Blah blah blah....
Another thing to consider - VTEC heads have MUCH better flow potential than any non -VTEC, right out of the box. Yes, blanco, that means your "whole system" will be at a much better starting point if you use a VTEC, or more specifically, a b16 or gsr head over an LS head. Have you done port work on a PR4? I have, and I'll tell you right now that after about 20 hard hours of work, my ports were ALMOST as large as stock b16 ports. Not to mention, the valves are larger and farther spread out in the vtec head, the valve stems are smaller and therefore lighter weight. nonVTEC is definitely simpler, but by no means is the equipment going to yield the same amount of power per dollar, given the right parts and the right tuning. There are just too many hardware advantages that the VTEC head has to offer.
I tend to agree that VTEC is played out to be this magical thing, but it is an advantage nonetheless, whether the VTEC head is used with VTEC-killer cams, or with a radical set of VTEC cams.
Welcome to 1970's technology. Embrace it.
I tend to agree that VTEC is played out to be this magical thing, but it is an advantage nonetheless, whether the VTEC head is used with VTEC-killer cams, or with a radical set of VTEC cams.
Welcome to 1970's technology. Embrace it.
can we all agree that each option has its own advantages?
For vtec, you can optimize your cam design for good low end grunt and top end power. your head flows better from the factory. its a little easier to use as a daily driver due to the fact that the idle will be a lot more stable than a non-vtec running the same power.
for non-vtec you will have the effect of always "being in vtec". Yeah, the low end power wont be AS SUBSTANTIAL AS IT COULD BE, but in the top end, it will make JUST AS MUCH POWER as a vtec engine. With good port work, an LS head can flow just as well as a b16 head, and a mill can increase the compression, just like with any head. also, there is less valvetrain resistance allowing the engine to rev a little faster. tuning is easier seeing as you only have to tune one ignition map and one fuel map. makes life simpler for you and the tuner.
overall, each has its own advantage, and really if i were give 10k to build a LS all-motor and a LS-Vtec all motor, i really couldnt tell you which would be faster. Ive seen (and read about) some all motor LSes that would destroy most LS/VTECs, and ive also SEEN LS/VTECs that will eat all motor LSes alive.
It all depends on part selection and tuning. To get right down to it, that is only good until you get a driver in the car to fuck stuff up.
Can we all go back to being friends now?
For vtec, you can optimize your cam design for good low end grunt and top end power. your head flows better from the factory. its a little easier to use as a daily driver due to the fact that the idle will be a lot more stable than a non-vtec running the same power.
for non-vtec you will have the effect of always "being in vtec". Yeah, the low end power wont be AS SUBSTANTIAL AS IT COULD BE, but in the top end, it will make JUST AS MUCH POWER as a vtec engine. With good port work, an LS head can flow just as well as a b16 head, and a mill can increase the compression, just like with any head. also, there is less valvetrain resistance allowing the engine to rev a little faster. tuning is easier seeing as you only have to tune one ignition map and one fuel map. makes life simpler for you and the tuner.
overall, each has its own advantage, and really if i were give 10k to build a LS all-motor and a LS-Vtec all motor, i really couldnt tell you which would be faster. Ive seen (and read about) some all motor LSes that would destroy most LS/VTECs, and ive also SEEN LS/VTECs that will eat all motor LSes alive.
It all depends on part selection and tuning. To get right down to it, that is only good until you get a driver in the car to fuck stuff up.
Can we all go back to being friends now?
MikeBergy
Blah blah blah....
I wasn't trying to be a dick, just trying to support my opinion. The only reason I haven't done a vtec head swap on my car is because it is illegal in California, and is a noticeable change in the engine compartment to any educated smog tech that cares to bust you for it. CHP has also been trained to look for it. I don't get tickets in my car, nor do I street race, but that is my reason for beefing up the LS. It's fast, I'll admit. It would run faster if I had a pro tune it, but I'm cool for now. There are a few issues that come with increased compression and more aggressive cams though that would be solved by a vtec cam and better tuning.
Agree to disagree, or whatever. I appreciate any well built engine that had some thought and planning put into it, whether it be vtec or non. I just hate the people that say "with X parts and X engine, I'll be the bizness, yo" and have no rhyme or reason to why they did what they did, except to be mad tizzite ricers. They are the reason we pay premium for certain engines, transmissions and parts.
Agree to disagree, or whatever. I appreciate any well built engine that had some thought and planning put into it, whether it be vtec or non. I just hate the people that say "with X parts and X engine, I'll be the bizness, yo" and have no rhyme or reason to why they did what they did, except to be mad tizzite ricers. They are the reason we pay premium for certain engines, transmissions and parts.
VTEC is totally over-rated, I don't know why I didn't agree more. I had to think about this, I guess.
Just imagine, as great as it is but only being "so" great, so many people out there now what it is. So many of them know just how great it is and don't think it's anymore or less great than that. Then, everyone else, either think it's just trash, or think so highly of it, the things they say about it are nothing more than uninformed pipe dreams.
Personally, whether single cam or dual, I will "likely" always try to make sure I see the word VTEC under my own hood. Based on my own personal experiences with it, and the things I've learned from the people I know, I would rather know I have it than to choose to proceed with a high performance build without it, but that's personal. I'm also sure I could literally kick my own ass and out perform a VTEC engine that I built with a non-VTEC engine that I assembled simply because as much as I love it, I don't even begin to understand some of the more complex facets of what VTEC does once it engages. I know everything about VTEC except properly tuning it, and the differences about the engine\ECU once it changes over. But, they don't teach you that stuff in school, that's a wisdom\experience lesson.
All-in-all, I think this has taught us to at least refrain from saying really finite and general stuff like "VTEC is crap\worthless" or "engine's without VTEC will never make power" etc... because ultimately, it all comes down to what it is under the hood when it hits the rollers. And VTEC or Non, if your putting down 500WHP, who cares what you heard on the internet? We're only here to assist each other. This, as well as every other car forum, is a MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL COMMUNITY, not a place to flex e-brain cells.
Just imagine, as great as it is but only being "so" great, so many people out there now what it is. So many of them know just how great it is and don't think it's anymore or less great than that. Then, everyone else, either think it's just trash, or think so highly of it, the things they say about it are nothing more than uninformed pipe dreams.
Personally, whether single cam or dual, I will "likely" always try to make sure I see the word VTEC under my own hood. Based on my own personal experiences with it, and the things I've learned from the people I know, I would rather know I have it than to choose to proceed with a high performance build without it, but that's personal. I'm also sure I could literally kick my own ass and out perform a VTEC engine that I built with a non-VTEC engine that I assembled simply because as much as I love it, I don't even begin to understand some of the more complex facets of what VTEC does once it engages. I know everything about VTEC except properly tuning it, and the differences about the engine\ECU once it changes over. But, they don't teach you that stuff in school, that's a wisdom\experience lesson.
All-in-all, I think this has taught us to at least refrain from saying really finite and general stuff like "VTEC is crap\worthless" or "engine's without VTEC will never make power" etc... because ultimately, it all comes down to what it is under the hood when it hits the rollers. And VTEC or Non, if your putting down 500WHP, who cares what you heard on the internet? We're only here to assist each other. This, as well as every other car forum, is a MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL COMMUNITY, not a place to flex e-brain cells.
I actually love the A6 vs B16 dyno. It's a pretty nice way to show what the difference in engine geometry does at the same displacement and similar compression ratios. I would just rather have the B16 as a daily driver because of the two different cam ranges.
I do like the non-VTEC blocks. On a budget, I always recommend building a non-VTEC setup over a VTEC one- parts are cheaper, and unless you're going absolutely nuts on your ultimate power goal, you can have really good results that are drivable day to day without any problems.
But yes, agree and disagree- facts and facts.
Awwwwwwww hugz and kumbahyah. And waaaaaaaaay OT for this thread. Oh well.
wakeboardstud13
New Member
how hard is it to put a vtec head on a b18? you gotta remember its my first engine build and ive heard its pretty hard and takes alot of tuning
im in the process of building up a b18a non vtech...should be a lil monster when i get done with it
darton sleeves, eagle hbeams and pistons, crower 402t cams gears springs retainers, skunk2 intake and tb, revhard .70 turbo kit, msd ignition launch control-rev limiter...
still to pick up - install injectors, fuel rail, pump, clutch, ecu
got my fingers crossed for 475hp
darton sleeves, eagle hbeams and pistons, crower 402t cams gears springs retainers, skunk2 intake and tb, revhard .70 turbo kit, msd ignition launch control-rev limiter...
still to pick up - install injectors, fuel rail, pump, clutch, ecu
got my fingers crossed for 475hp