b18c1 Gsr head vs b16a2 Si head

[Iquark]

Originally posted by revolution8k@Jan 3 2004, 12:52 AM
Well, I'll just stick with a P&P, and a port matching job on the GSR head when I get the engine itself. That'll be the cheapest in the long run.

The best thing about the B16 head is that it doesn't have the duel stage manifold.

 

[jamesA]

Originally posted by Iquark+Jan 3 2004, 03:02 AM-->

revolution8k

@Jan 3 2004, 12:52 AM
Well, I'll just stick with a P&P, and a port matching job on the GSR head when I get the engine itself. That'll be the cheapest in the long run.

The best thing about the B16 head is that it doesn't have the duel stage manifold.

how is that the best thing? The dual stage manifolds help with midrange torque. Torque is good for you. No matter what Honda says to brainwash you, you do need some torque.

 

[K2e2vin]

Originally posted by revolution8k+Jan 3 2004, 03:06 AM-->

Originally posted by Iquark@Jan 3 2004, 03:02 AM
revolution8k

@Jan 3 2004, 12:52 AM
Well, I'll just stick with a P&P, and a port matching job on the GSR head when I get the engine itself. That'll be the cheapest in the long run.

The best thing about the B16 head is that it doesn't have the duel stage manifold.

how is that the best thing? The dual stage manifolds help with midrange torque. Torque is good for you. No matter what Honda says to brainwash you, you do need some torque.

werd. it helps create a broader powerband.

 

[E_SolSi]

Originally posted by K2e2vin+Jan 3 2004, 03:09 AM-->

Originally posted by revolution8k@Jan 3 2004, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by Iquark@Jan 3 2004, 03:02 AM
revolution8k

@Jan 3 2004, 12:52 AM
Well, I'll just stick with a P&P, and a port matching job on the GSR head when I get the engine itself. That'll be the cheapest in the long run.

The best thing about the B16 head is that it doesn't have the duel stage manifold.

how is that the best thing? The dual stage manifolds help with midrange torque. Torque is good for you. No matter what Honda says to brainwash you, you do need some torque.

werd. it helps create a broader powerband.

and if you really dont like it that much just get the skunk2 manifold

 

[JDMilan]

thanks for posting that visual comparison E, that is exactly the graph that I was talking about

 

[BrahmaBullSQ]

Honda don't need THAT much torque though. It's not like we are doing tractor pulls down the dragstrip of something.

Explain the powerband thing a bit better for me. How does torque affect the powerband???

 

[jamesA]

having more torque in the midrange helps to pull the car throughout the rev range. It gives it a broader, more useable power band when driving in town. It's all about drivability.. Do you want to drive around at 7000 rpm to feel like you're gettyin anywhere??

I'd rather have the torque to pull me through the city at 3500-4000 rpm then have to rev to 7000 rpm to get all 111 ft lbs in my Si.

This is also why I liked the Escort GT over the Si as per drivability. The GTs power band was lower in the rpm and broader throughout the powerband. I got 114 ft lbs at 4500 rpm, as opposed to 7000 rpm in the Si. Which is why I think if the 91-96 Escort GT had 160-180 hp it would rip the Si and even the GSR apart even today.

 

[chet]

the gsr head has a slightly smaller combustion chamber which causes higher compression on the same block when compared to a p30 cylinder head. it really depends on the tuner and the setup...although most people favor the p30 because it flows better.

as far as midrange, the intake manifold, cams and exhaust manifold all play a greater role in the power band.

my ITR motor with p30 intake manifold, comptech 4-2-1 2.25 header and slightly more restrictive exhaust made 135ft lbs of torque at 5k rpm. overall my best numbers were 180, 135 and from 5k onward the motor was a beast.

a lot of guys will claim their "high hp" numbers which is kinda irrelevant because power under the curve makes a car fast.

for example: a b16a with jun3's will make close to 185whp with a 2.5 header, itr intake manifold etc...

when comparing that setup to a gsr motor with 180whp, the gsr will walk the b16a because of the torque a 1.8 has...despite making "less power."

 

[JDMilan]

side not to what rev8k said: just wanted to add that my 240's tq is very fun, useable, and ideal for low rpm conditions. I like having tq, but i also miss top end pull from Da VTeCHHHHHH YoOol!!

 

[Sergey P.A.]

come'on you now talking about which one is better for a street racing car....

B16 vs. GSR
or
Torque vs. HP

the torque di fferences are like 20 or 15 which makes a difference when you pull on somebody, that's not like we have a 500lb/feet of torque (I know I didn't say it right, but who cares) of course nobody wants that, but a nice 15-20 lb/torque makes a difference,

and I don't even believe that a B16 is better than a GSR, because there is like only 10hp. difference and a GSR jest eats a B16,

and of course if you gonna put some money into a Si it will make it fast enough to beat a GSR, but if you put same amount of money into a GSR...... you create a beast,

I personally think that B16 heads they not that good, my friend had a B16 with a Tanabe exhaust, skunk2 IM, VAFC, MSD, a stage 2 cluch, some after market header, so we went and made a dyno test and this shit made like only 120 or 130 wheel horse power,

and when you drive a B16 it feels like you drive a D16 yah a SOCH Vtec, and if even the vtec kik's in you don't feel the difference before 6000rpm.

and the best engines, if you whan't to feel the power through out the powerband are H22 or H23,

 

[jamesA]

I'm not going to put in an H22. My plan was to throw in a B18c1 into an EK hatch. I wanted to know if the a2 head would give me any significant gains, apparently not. So I'll just stick with the c1 head, do a port and polish get a turbo spoolin on it and be done with it.

 

[red95solsi]

also the gsr cams are slightly bigger then b16 cams

 

[Sergey P.A.]