B18c1 vs. B18c5

[klei2fast]

Alright, here's the deal. I have $4500 and I wanna do a swap in a 92 hatch. Would you guys just drop a B18c5 in or would you buy a B18c1 for cheap and put about $2k into the motor to get more power out of it. Can I even get 40 extra horsepower out of a B18c1 for $2k? Let me know what you think.

 

[lude68]

what are you planning on doing? all-motor or boost...just depends on your preference...do you like to drag or a nice road course? just some factors to ponder on

 

[JDMilan]

ITR for roadcourse and NA

GSR if you plan to boost

 

[lude68]

ahhhh i wouldnt be too snappy about that...ive got a gsr at the moment...and i sold my turbo kit for NA...keeping my factory rods w/ p30 pistons swinging on the end (11.5:1 CR), skunk 2 stg 2's, homemade itbs =), and an an-r header....for the extra 2 grand on saving from the itr...do the same thing and rape an itr on a road course.. (well maybe not rape but you get the idea)

 

[vtecsir1]

heres the thing, if you plan to stay n/a and want to build your gsr up to beat an itr that 1-2 grand you save isnt going to go real far. first of all the tranny has much better gear ratios and an lsd which your gsr unit wont have.

lets break it down:

Mild port and polish that the itr has: 500-800
More aggressive cams: 500-700
Lsd tranny:800-1200
Valvetrain: not sure but its over 500 i think
sweet header: 400-500
Better flowing intakemanifold and throttle body: 400-
lightweight rods and higher compression: 600-

so you can see that the ITR motor has some very appealing things to it that are proven to make a lot of power and help with handling like the lsd. I think you would be more satisfied with an ITR.

 

[lude68]

Originally posted by vtecsir1@Mar 3 2004, 12:13 PM
heres the thing, if you plan to stay n/a and want to build your gsr up to beat an itr that 1-2 grand you save isnt going to go real far. first of all the tranny has much gear ratios and an lsd which your gsr unit wont have.

lets break it down:

Mild port and polish that the itr has: 500-800
More aggressive cams: 500-700
Lsd tranny:800-1200
Valvetrain: not sure but its over 500 i think
sweet header: 400-500
Better flowing intakemanifold and throttle body: 400-
lightweight rods and higher compression: 600-

so you can see that the ITR motor has some very appealing things to it that are proven to make a lot of power and help with handling like the lsd. I think you would be more satisfied with an ITR.

or we can break this down into reality..

mild P&P (from a shop in my town)-250-500
cams seem to be about right
Valve train (such as itr)- 200-300(at most)
the header ive been scoping from an-r.com - 530 shipped
and screw the intake mani when you can have homemade itbs that gives you a shit load more power for 400-600 complete
and keep the gsr rods...have the shotpeened and buy p30 pistons for around 200

lets see...im at 2130 (at most) and if you want a shitty honda lsd differential buy one off ebay for 300 shipped....(save and buy a quaiffe ...or however its spelled)

dude..compare the cost.....im doing the same thing to mine right now and ive got a really good friend w/ an itr and he can tell you 1st hand...my lil budget set will spank his stock itr...

 

[phunky.buddha]

Reality?

The OEM Honda LSD is awesome for all motor applications, and can handle quite a bit of boost too. It just doesn't have a lifetime warranty for when the Quaife breaks.

Cams? Weak. Get anything aftermarket- they'll make considerably more power than the stock ones. Performing a mild P&P and upgrading head parts isn't going to help THAT much if you're still choking your engine with stock cams.

Homemade ITBs? Have you thought about the price of tuning those ITBs? Nope. Add a few hundred or thousand more depending on what system you're going to use, then add money for dyno time on top of that.

 

[GSRCRXsi]

actually mike, a set of homemade ITB's can be made, and tuned fairly cheaply. check this out. this guy made and tuned his own ITB setup for pretty cheap. he had it running smoothly and everything all before dyno time. he did fine tune it on the dyno later though, and he made 152 on a stock b16 that used to be seized.

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=752484

if anyone is serious about doing this, i would suggest contacting this guy and ask for advice. he was running a programmable ECU though and i dont think you would be able to do this with a stock ECU.

 

[klei2fast]

Which would be better for turbo?

 

[vtecsir1]

Originally posted by lude68+Mar 3 2004, 12:45 PM-->

vtecsir1

@Mar 3 2004, 12:13 PM
heres the thing, if you plan to stay n/a and want to build your gsr up to beat an itr that 1-2 grand you save isnt going to go real far. first of all the tranny has much gear ratios and an lsd which your gsr unit wont have.

lets break it down:

Mild port and polish that the itr has: 500-800
More aggressive cams: 500-700
Lsd tranny:800-1200
Valvetrain: not sure but its over 500 i think
sweet header: 400-500
Better flowing intakemanifold and throttle body: 400-
lightweight rods and higher compression: 600-

so you can see that the ITR motor has some very appealing things to it that are proven to make a lot of power and help with handling like the lsd. I think you would be more satisfied with an ITR.

or we can break this down into reality..

mild P&P (from a shop in my town)-250-500
cams seem to be about right
Valve train (such as itr)- 200-300(at most)
the header ive been scoping from an-r.com - 530 shipped
and screw the intake mani when you can have homemade itbs that gives you a shit load more power for 400-600 complete
and keep the gsr rods...have the shotpeened and buy p30 pistons for around 200

lets see...im at 2130 (at most) and if you want a shitty honda lsd differential buy one off ebay for 300 shipped....(save and buy a quaiffe ...or however its spelled)

dude..compare the cost.....im doing the same thing to mine right now and ive got a really good friend w/ an itr and he can tell you 1st hand...my lil budget set will spank his stock itr...

reality is a port and polish job done by an idiot in town can ruin your motor. my estimates were on getting it done right. my estimates i think are about right and i still think the r would be a better way to go than the way you are going. sometimes reliability is a little better than an extra 10 hp at the wheels imo.

 

[vtecsir1]

Originally posted by klei2fast@Mar 3 2004, 03:54 PM
Which would be better for turbo?

well if you had of said that in the begining we wouldnt be discussing the itr motor. gsr motor for boost like someone already said.

 

[vtecsir1]

Originally posted by GSRCRXsi@Mar 3 2004, 03:15 PM
actually mike, a set of homemade ITB's can be made, and tuned fairly cheaply. check this out. this guy made and tuned his own ITB setup for pretty cheap. he had it running smoothly and everything all before dyno time. he did fine tune it on the dyno later though, and he made 152 on a stock b16 that used to be seized.

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=752484

if anyone is serious about doing this, i would suggest contacting this guy and ask for advice. he was running a programmable ECU though and i dont think you would be able to do this with a stock ECU.

itbs done by companies are expensive because they are done right. im not so sure im going to throw some motorcycle parts on my car and then never be able to tune it properly and have shit falling apart. im not saying they dont work and cant be done right.

 

[GSRCRXsi]

if you search around on H-T you will find a video of him on the dyno. the car runs perfect, and even made nice numbers for a stock b16. he didnt just throw parts on there, he undoubtedly knew what he was doing.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Exactly... one of the real benefits is having a separate MAP sensor for each intake stream too- and you can't do that with the Honda ECU at all I don't think. I'd rather have an ITB setup where I've tuned the intake pipe length per cylinder for the best air flow too, rather than just throwing on a bunch of individual throttle bodies.

Either way, I'm not trusting a cobbled together ITB setup on an engine that's got a ton of cash in it.

 

[GSRCRXsi]

Originally posted by Calesta@Mar 3 2004, 05:15 PM
Exactly... one of the real benefits is having a separate MAP sensor for each intake stream too- and you can't do that with the Honda ECU at all I don't think. I'd rather have an ITB setup where I've tuned the intake pipe length per cylinder for the best air flow too, rather than just throwing on a bunch of individual throttle bodies.

Either way, I'm not trusting a cobbled together ITB setup on an engine that's got a ton of cash in it.

understandable for your situation. but if you read any of his other posts about his engine, its a stock b16, with 85 dollar header, and the motor was basically trash when he got it(seized). he got a deal on the carbs from the suzuki and tried it out. i think what he ended up with was great and i think he did a great job on the setup.

but yes the most gains would come out of the real ITB's. it just costs a lot more money

edit: and enough NA talk, lol this guy wants turbo. go GSR buddy, you wont be dissapointed.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Oh definitely... if I had a spare engine and chassis, along with some extra cash just to try it out, I would definitely be up for something like this. Hell, I might try it on Katie's car if/when I get a chance to build a monster D block for it.

 

[klei2fast]

This website rocks!!! Thanks for all of your help guys. So, basically if I want a good motor go with the itr, but if I want to go turbo go with the B18c1. Also, if I want to beef up a B18c1 its gonna cost some bucks to do it right. Basically I want to have a light assed hatch with a lot of sticken power and I was just wondering what motor would be best to start with. Once again, thanks for you help.

 

[AF_Med_Tech]

In my opinion i would get the B16C1 (Integra GSR), because it is cheaper then the B16C5 (Integra Type R).

To Upgrade or make a "Frankenstein Motor I would get Type R parts.

Type R Clutch Kit
Integra (1994-2001) Type R$ 330.00

Type R Exhaust Cam
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 300.00

Type R Exhaust Valve Spring Set
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 220.00

Type R Intake Cam
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 293.00

Type R Intake Manifold
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 265.00

Type R Intake Valve Set
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 124.00

Type R Intake Valve Spring Set
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 150.00

Type R Oil Pump
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 99.00

Type R Piston/Ring Set
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 275.00

Type R Piston/Ring Set
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 275.00

Type R Timing Belt
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 45.00

Type R Timing Belt Tensioner
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 58.00

Type R Water Pump
Integra (1994-2001) Type R
$ 100.00



So You are looking to spend around $2658 if you buy brand new genuine B18C5 Type R engine parts.

Type R Cams have 240 degrees of intake duration with 11.5 mm of lift while the exaust has 235 degrees of duration and 10.5 mm of lift. the cam has 25 degrees of overlap. You should keep the B series valve springs on the exaust side of the head and put the Type R intake valve springs.

If you have any questions contact me at leephotography805@yahoo.com

 

[BrutalB83]

Seriously dude? This thread is 4 years old, and the original poster hasn't been here for over a year now. You just typed all that shit for nothing. Start checking the dates on stuff before you hit "reply" from now on...

 

[phunky.buddha]

:wtf2: