B20 Vtec

[hybrid_b18]

IMO and a little bit of research..

pros- none

cons- thin sleeves, weak rod bolts, heat spots, prone to rods breaking, walls leaking, cost.

IMO go with the LSvTEC. your not makin that much more torque with the extra .2 liters that you are wasting the money on. and if you need the extra .2 liters bore the b18. its cheaper and alot more durable.

 

[lsvtec]

Originally posted by hybrid_b18@Jul 21 2004, 12:55 PM
IMO and a little bit of research..

pros- none

cons- thin sleeves, weak rod bolts, heat spots, prone to rods breaking, walls leaking, cost.

IMO go with the LSvTEC. your not makin that much more torque with the extra .2 liters that you are wasting the money on. and if you need the extra .2 liters bore the b18. its cheaper and alot more durable.

[post=366367]Quoted post[/post]​

Wow, don't listen to this. If you bore the B18 out to 84mm it will be weaker thanthe B20. The stock B18A/B sleeve can't take an 84mm bore. I don't think that the rod bolts are any different between the B18A/B and the B20B/Z (not sure there). The extra torque is noticable it is worth it IMO if you can afford aftermarket pistons.

 

[StyleTEG]

Originally posted by lsvtec@Jul 21 2004, 02:46 PM
Wow, don't listen to this. If you bore the B18 out to 84mm it will be weaker thanthe B20. The stock B18A/B sleeve can't take an 84mm bore. I don't think that the rod bolts are any different between the B18A/B and the B20B/Z (not sure there). The extra torque is noticable it is worth it IMO if you can afford aftermarket pistons.

[post=366405]Quoted post[/post]​

The b20 is nothing more than a bored out B18

 

[Bl6CRX]

The extra torque is noticable it is worth it IMO if you can afford aftermarket pistons.

I also agree, even on a stock bottom end mine makes 200whp and 145wtq

 

[lsvtec]

Originally posted by StyleTEG+Jul 22 2004, 10:18 AM-->

Originally posted by lsvtec@Jul 21 2004, 02:46 PM
Wow, don't listen to this.  If you bore the B18 out to 84mm it will be weaker thanthe B20.  The stock B18A/B sleeve can't take an 84mm bore.  I don't think that the rod bolts are any different between the B18A/B and the B20B/Z (not sure there).  The extra torque is noticable it is worth it IMO if you can afford aftermarket pistons.

[post=366405]Quoted post[/post]​

The b20 is nothing more than a bored out B18

[post=366851]Quoted post[/post]​

But The B20 does not use the same sleeves that the B18 does.

Bl6CRX@Jul 22 2004, 11:17 AM

The extra torque is noticable it is worth it IMO if you can afford aftermarket pistons.

I also agree, even on a stock bottom end mine makes 200whp and 145wtq

[post=366871]Quoted post[/post]​

I watched Calesta make 190 whp and 160 lb-ft ona completely stock B16 head with a 2.0L bottom end.

 

[StyleTEG]

Originally posted by lsvtec@Jul 22 2004, 03:24 PM
But The B20 does not use the same sleeves that the B18 does.

I have never seen nor herd any evidence that any b series block uses anything but pressed in cast iron sleeves, nor that any use any sort of "higher strength" cast iron sleeves.

 

[lsvtec]

Originally posted by StyleTEG+Jul 22 2004, 02:58 PM-->

lsvtec

@Jul 22 2004, 03:24 PM

But The B20 does not use the same sleeves that the B18 does.

I have never seen nor herd any evidence that any b series block uses anything but pressed in cast iron sleeves, nor that any use any sort of "higher strength" cast iron sleeves.

[post=366957]Quoted post[/post]​

I was under the impression (and this could be incorrect) that the B20 sleeves were made at an 84mm bore, not at 81mm then bored over. I realize that they are made of the same material but I don't think that they begin life as the exact same sleeve.

 

[StyleTEG]

Originally posted by lsvtec@Jul 22 2004, 04:53 PM
I was under the impression (and this could be incorrect) that the B20 sleeves were made at an 84mm bore, not at 81mm then bored over. I realize that they are made of the same material but I don't think that they begin life as the exact same sleeve.

[post=366984]Quoted post[/post]​

Hmmm. yeah I would be very surprised if they started at a 81mm and were bored out to 84mm. But I don't see how opening the 81mm sleeves would weaken them if it was done correctly?

overboring is done all the time when the cylinders are out of round, granted not as much is taken off, but if there were significant stress raisers because of it wouldn't it still be an issue?

I have always been told you can bore B series out to 84mm safely with out sleeving. Although honestly I have no direct experience, just reading what others have experianced.

Either way its safe to say that the thin cylinder walls you get with a 84mm bore are not optimal I am just curious if the B20 really is slightly stronger than the B18 because they were cast a 84mm and not bored out to 84mm.

 

[JDMilan]

from my undestanding they are two different types of sleeves.

 

[StyleTEG]

Originally posted by JDMilan@Jul 23 2004, 12:16 PM
from my undestanding they are two different types of sleeves.

[post=367330]Quoted post[/post]​

Any more information on this?

Looking at my B20 and my B18 they are definetly both cast iron, but of cource there are going to be different grades/types of cast iron. I suppose its entirely possible that honda decided to use more carbon in the B20 sleeves in order to change the size and amount of graphite flake, but I honestly wonder if that really is the case and how you would prove it?

 

[lsvtec]

Originally posted by StyleTEG+Jul 23 2004, 01:34 PM-->

JDMilan

@Jul 23 2004, 12:16 PM
from my undestanding they are two different types of sleeves.

[post=367330]Quoted post[/post]​

Any more information on this?

Looking at my B20 and my B18 they are definetly both cast iron, but of cource there are going to be different grades/types of cast iron. I suppose its entirely possible that honda decided to use more carbon in the B20 sleeves in order to change the size and amount of graphite flake, but I honestly wonder if that really is the case and how you would prove it?

[post=367365]Quoted post[/post]​

Bore a B18A/B to 84mm, but I don't have the spare block or the funds to do it.

 

[buzz1167]

I'm not exactly sure but, aren't the b18 cylinder walls seperate, and the b20 is all one piece? I wouldn't get a b18 with the intent of boring it over to 84mm. Its a stock sleeve and thats alot of bore, I would think it would end up being weaker than the b20, just for the fact that it was not made to handle a 84mm bore, and becuase the cylinders are sperate (I think), the *middle's* would be thinner than the one piece design and thus more prone to break.
If you want to bore it, you might as well sleeve it and bore it right, do it to 85mm

That said, I think the b20 would be a great choice for a b20vtec setup (over the lsvtec), however if you were going to turbo it or anything else. I would get an Ls, and depending on how much you like that torque, maybe sleeve it and have it bored out to 84-85.

Just my 2c's

 

[StyleTEG]

The B20 walls are not one piece. Doing so would either make them all aluminum (very week) or all cast iron (stronger than any other stock block, which they are not).

The only difference between the B18B block and the B20 block is the B20 has sleeves that are cast at 84mm.