Bar and plate or Tube and fin intercooler?

[NoJokE]

I KNOW that bar and plate is far superior to the tube and fin intercooler, BUT i called Geoff Raicer at FullRace to order my turbo and he said that tube and fin is better for an air to air application. I dont think so, you guys have any info on this. In all my research, EVERYONE and i mean EVERYONE says that bar and plate is far superior, but Geoff made me think twice about it since he knows a little bit about what he is talking about. Any feedback would be great.

 

[Loco Honkey]

Comparing the two, bar and plate has poorer external aerodynamics but better internal aerodynamics.

Tube and fin have better external aerodynamics, but poorer internal aerodynamics. However, you can overcome the poor internal aerodynamics by using a core with more rows, making it better in both aspects than the bar and plate.

He's right. Use a tube and fin core.

 

[posol]

geoff knows more about turbo setups than most of us could collectvly hope to know in a life time. trust him.

 

[SolReaver]

Loco Honkey, can you explain more specifically what you mean by internal aerodynamics vs outer dynamics?

Geoff also knows how to tax the hell out of people on the stuff he sells....

Spearco's bar and plate core technology utilizes aerospace grade aluminum that are vacuum brazed under strict conditions. They are capable of withstanding the highest pressure as compared to standard conventional tube and fin intercooler cores. Each core is uniquely designed with a fin combination to achieve the maximum effectiveness with minimal pressure drop. Our bar and plate design has a uniform dimension across the entire core as compared to the standard tube and fin design that utilizes a larger header plate.

m3 turbo kits use bar and plate because:

The intercooler is an aluminum fabrication sized for approximately 500 bhp. We use bar-plate cores which yield the greatest efficiency at the lowest pressure drop.

http://www.cartech.net/bmwm3turbo.htm

I prefer bar and plate, because they typically have a larger, heavier cooling area, which is a better heatsink

 

[posol]

Originally posted by SolReaver@Aug 11 2003, 10:34 PM
Geoff also knows how to tax the hell out of people on the stuff he sells....

what do you mean? the 4 grand i spent with him could not be replicated anywhere else.

 

[Loco Honkey]

Originally posted by SolReaver@Aug 11 2003, 09:34 PM
Loco Honkey, can you explain more specifically what you mean by internal aerodynamics vs outer dynamics?

Sure. A bar and plate IC will have a lower pressure drop than a tube fin. However, because the tubes have square leading and trailing edges, they tend to force cooling air around the core, rather than between the rows.

A tube fin of the same size and design will have a higher pressure drop because it has less volume inside the rows for charge air. However, since the leading and trailing edges of the tubes are rounded, they "channel" more air in between the rows.

Here's where tube fin comes out on top- make the core or the rows slightly larger than the bar and plate to make up the pressure drop difference and you'll have an IC that will flow as well as a bar/ plate, and will cool more efficiently because the rows are seeing more cooling air between them.

If this doesn't make sense, I can draw a picture to show what I mean.

 

[NoJokE]

Originally posted by Loco Honkey+Aug 13 2003, 01:00 PM-->

SolReaver

@Aug 11 2003, 09:34 PM
Loco Honkey, can you explain more specifically what you mean by internal aerodynamics vs outer dynamics?

Sure. A bar and plate IC will have a lower pressure drop than a tube fin. However, because the tubes have square leading and trailing edges, they tend to force cooling air around the core, rather than between the rows.

A tube fin of the same size and design will have a higher pressure drop because it has less volume inside the rows for charge air. However, since the leading and trailing edges of the tubes are rounded, they "channel" more air in between the rows.

Here's where tube fin comes out on top- make the core or the rows slightly larger than the bar and plate to make up the pressure drop difference and you'll have an IC that will flow as well as a bar/ plate, and will cool more efficiently because the rows are seeing more cooling air between them.

If this doesn't make sense, I can draw a picture to show what I mean.

So you are saying that if the they are both equal in size, then bar and plate is superior? Of course if you make the tube and fin bigger than the bar and plate it will be more efficient, but if everything is equal the bar and plate is superior i would think.

 

[Loco Honkey]

You misunderstood what I meant. What I had said was that a bar 'n plate has better internal aerodynamics, and a tube fin has better external aerodynamics. Everything being exactly equal, the bar and plate will have a lower pressure drop (by like, 1% if that), but the charge air will be hotter and will be more prone to heat soak because of the poorer external aerodynamics.

It's really splitting hairs. It's like saying that Mobil1 oil is better than Castrol GTX. Sure, it may be a little better, but the difference is so minor, that 99% of the people using either won't notice it if you switch it on 'em.

Cartech says bar and plate is superior, but by how much, and in what areas? Ahhh... they don't tell you... Hm...