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Benefits?

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by korey, Dec 6, 2003.

  1. korey

    korey Senior Member

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    This might be dumb question but would there be any benefit from sleeving a motor for N/A purposes. Let me know opinions. Thanx.
     
  2. simplyfast

    simplyfast Senior Member

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    only to increase bore.
     
  3. brian11to1

    brian11to1 Senior Member

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    and the benefits of increasing bore? follow through man, if you increase bore, you increase displacement, with that then comes increased power. This is most obvious hope I didnt make a fool out of myself.
     
  4. simplyfast

    simplyfast Senior Member

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    increasing the bore really doesnt help the displacement that much. they have a bore chart at this site breaking down each stroke, and how many cc's youll pick up by running a larger bore.
    to get a truely positive increasement in displacement you should look at restroking it.
     
  5. deth101

    deth101 Senior Member

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    w/better sleeves you will be able to run a higher compression than not so yes it's worth while but you will need to build all to run more compression or you'll just blow your head right off at the least,motors built to handle high compression all around are very desirable for N/A but it aint cheap and w/fi and the same $$$ you should have more power........the reason very few build super N/A is because the $$$$$$$ but if you do some searching about JUN and other race built N/A motors you can learn more about these builds and what else it takes
     
  6. JDMilan

    JDMilan Senior Member

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    larger bore does increase displacement via larger pistons and more volume.


    Resleeving is done on hondas to increase strenght for either psi or high revs, but you have to option to increase the displacement also.


    GSR 81mm bore and then increasing to 84.5mm bore you go from a ~1.797 liter to over ~2 liters
     
  7. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Wrong. Sorry man- you increase displacement both ways. I'm almost 300cc above stock because of my bore. The stroke is stock for an LS crank. You can gain quite a bit by boring out your engine.
     
  8. simplyfast

    simplyfast Senior Member

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    no im not wrong. what i said was in order to really pick up more displacement it is better to change the stroke.

    a gsr that is bored to 84.5mm does not make it over 2 liters. read the chart this website has so graciously provided. at 85.5mm a gsr engine becomes a 2 liter.

    calesta, what engine do you have? has that engine been resleeved? if you have a b-series that would mean your bore would have to be 87mm, and only the b20 will truely give you 300cc's more.
     
  9. knowledge

    knowledge Senior Member

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  10. simplyfast

    simplyfast Senior Member

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    he has a b20 thats been re-sleeved. he may be some kind of honda god to you, but he is still learning in my book. his cylinder walls are weak too if he has an 87mm bore, which is what it will take to gain 300cc without strokin it.
     
  11. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    simplyfast, no I'm not a Honda God. Yes, I'm still learning, but I know a shitload more than you apparently think I do.

    I do NOT have a resleeved B20. I have a GSR block that's sitting at 85mm bore and 89mm stroke, and it displaces 2020cc. Now tell me that's not 2.0L. The new bore on the new build will most likely be 86mm, and that would put me at 2068cc. Compared to the GSR's 1797cc, that's 271cc larger than stock. I'd hazard to say that qualifies as "almost 300cc above stock" don't you?

    Don't make assumptions on someone's qualifications and knowledge just because he doesn't agree with you.
     
  12. lsvtec

    lsvtec GNU/Linux Evangelist

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    Acutally you are wrong. Please pay attention to basic math here.

    Take the stock LS block 81mm bore, 89mm stroke and ~1834cc (using pi only to 5 digits)
    If we choose to increase bore by 3mm (84mm bore 89mm stroke) we have ~1972cc
    Now increase the stroke by the same amount and leave the bore stock (81mm bore 92mm stroke) ~1896cc

    Wow, it looks like one needs a signifcantly larger increase in stroke to make the same increase in displacement. Gosh I wonder what causes that. For those that don't remember displacement is = cylinder volume * number of cylinders. Cylinder volume = (roughly) ( ( 1/2 ) * bore )^2 * pi * stroke. Incase you still don't see it this function is O( n^2 ) not O( n ) meaning that the squared term dominates what the function looks like if you increase the two variables at an equal rate. After observing this function some one might come to the conclusion a small increase in both stroke and bore (say add 1.5mm to both) instead of a large increase in on (say adding 3mm to one or the other) will yield a larger change in displacement.

    So the moral of the story here is make sure you know you math before you start being a dick. Hope you had a good time kiddies.
     
  13. simplyfast

    simplyfast Senior Member

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    well the guy i responded to irked me cause he was speaking for you, and that type of shit bothers me. i feel someone should speak for their self.

    you have more to learn, i have more to learn.

    you say you didnt stroke your engine? yet you have a gsr with an 89mm stroke? gsr's came with a stroke of 87.2, so you have increased displacement by both stroking and boring.
    for arguments sake, lets say you made an err in what you wrote. you actually have an 87.2mm stroke, with an 85mm bore, you would then have 1979cc's of displacement. this would be a 2.0 litre, youre right.
     
  14. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    That's fine.

    I didn't say that I didn't stroke my engine. Go read. The majority of the displacement increase is from the bore job though. Stroking on an undersquare engine won't gain you as much volume as boring- just from the simple fact that increasing bore on a long stroke engine will add more swept volume than adding the same measure of stroke. You'll gain more displacement on an engine by bring it "closer to square" than taking it farther out.
     
  15. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

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    I'm boring my b16a out t0 84 or 85 mm. Not touching the stroke, otherwise why buy a b16a in the first place? With an ideal rod to stroke ratio, any changes in the stroke are going to make the engine less revvable, without doing more work to the bottom end.
     
  16. simplyfast

    simplyfast Senior Member

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    calesta, youre a tricky bastard. but i respect you cause you do know what youre talking bout. i should have ended this a long time ago by saying this-boring or just stroking wont pick up that much, but doing both will.
    but tell me how paper thin your cylinder walls are? have you machined the block to piston height? you gonna use an o-ring gasket?
     
  17. jiahanhao

    jiahanhao Senior Member

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    boring>>stroking for increasing displacement.
     
  18. 89_starter

    89_starter Member

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    Wow every ones arguing :eek: getting back to basic the benifit of sleeving a block is if you have a bore that has been scard pasted its service limmit. For example I have a d series block and let say I have a scar in the bore the goes .033'' deep well the service limit on those bores is only .020" so there for the cylinder will need sleeving for cylinder to be repaired. With these BI-metal engine the cylinders are cast iron and then they are cast into an alunium block. Now on the HIgh PO side sleeving for a turbo keep the cylinders from balooning, for high comp I would not worry because the same amount of air mass is comming in the eninge with the same force plus all the fun of the compresion happens in the combustion chamber wich in most cases the cylinder has nothing to do with. Where does the bottom of the combustion chaber start?.... at the top of the piston and the top of the piston sould be 0 deck hieght on b and d series motors uless of course you welded a deck plate on but that another story. They taught me how to build engnies in community college but they still have not taught me how to spell.
     
  19. simplyfast

    simplyfast Senior Member

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    piston to deck height is not 0 on b series blocks last i checked. they fall slightly short, or i have drank too many 24 ozers. they leave bout 3mm (?) of combustion.
     
  20. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    i think thats about it.
     
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