1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Big Brake upgrade

Discussion in 'Wheels / Suspension / Tires / Brakes' started by jimboburgess, Apr 24, 2006.

  1. jimboburgess

    jimboburgess Go fast, Go Cheap

    Messages:
    1,341
    Likes Received:
    14
    Joined:
    May 7, 2005
    Location:
    nyc
    http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.html

    this is the original text from the site above

    Let’s look at some common rotor ‘modification’ and ‘performance’ upgrades that you may have been exposed to and try to separate the marketing from the engineering…

    Super Sizing

    Bigger rotors will make your friends think you are cool, bigger rotors look sexy, but bigger rotors do not stop the car. What a bigger rotor will do is lower the overall operating temperature of the brakes – which is a GREAT idea IF your temperatures are causing problems with other parts of the braking system. Take for example a F500 racecar – a small 800 pound single seat formula car. While the brakes are certainly much smaller than those found on a 3,000 pound GT1 Camaro, that does not necessarily mean that they need to be made larger. In fact, swapping on a GT1 brake package would probably do more harm than good – that’s a lot of steel hanging on the wheel that needs to accelerate each time the ‘go’ pedal is pushed. So, the motto of this story is bigger is better until your temperatures are under control. After that point, you are doing more harm than good…unless you really like the look (and hey – some of us do!).

    Crossdrilling

    Crossdrilling your rotors might look neat, but what is it really doing for you? Well, unless your car is using brake pads from the 40’s and 50’s, not a whole lot. Rotors were first ‘drilled’ because early brake pad materials gave off gasses when heated to racing temperatures – a process known as ‘gassing out’. These gasses then formed a thin layer between the brake pad face and the rotor, acting as a lubricant and effectively lowering the coefficient of friction. The holes were implemented to give the gasses ‘somewhere to go’. It was an effective solution, but today’s friction materials do not exhibit the same gassing out phenomenon as the early pads.

    For this reason, the holes have carried over more as a design feature than a performance feature. Contrary to popular belief they don’t lower temperatures (in fact, by removing weight from the rotor, the temperatures can actually increase a little), they create stress risers allowing the rotor to crack sooner, and make a mess of brake pads – sort of like a cheese grater rubbing against them at every stop. (Want more evidence? Look at NASCAR or F1. You would think that if drilling holes in the rotor was the hot ticket, these teams would be doing it.)

    The one glaring exception here is in the rare situation where the rotors are so oversized (look at any performance motorcycle or lighter formula car) that the rotors are drilled like Swiss cheese. While the issues of stress risers and brake pad wear are still present, drilling is used to reduce the mass of the parts in spite of these concerns. Remember – nothing comes for free. If these teams switched to non-drilled rotors, they would see lower operating temperatures and longer brake pad life – at the expense of higher weight. It’s all about trade-offs.

    Slotting

    Slotting rotors, on the other hand, might be a consideration if your sanctioning body allows for it. Cutting thin slots across the face of the rotor can actually help to clean the face of the brake pads over time, helping to reduce the ‘glazing’ often found during high-speed use which can lower the coefficient of friction. While there may still be a small concern over creating stress risers in the face of the rotor, if the slots are shallow and cut properly, the trade-off appears to be worth the risk. (Have you looked at a NASCAR rotor lately?)

    Too cool!

    Last year we bought 4 rotors. Two were bone stock, and two were subjected to a process know as Cryogenically Treating – one of the high-tech buzzwords floating around the paddock. The rotors were run back-to-back on the same track on the same car on the same day with temperatures taken to make sure that they saw the same level of heat. Following the track session, the parts were removed and we had them literally dissected by a materials lab.

    The testing conducted included surface hardness, grain structure analysis, density, and surface scanning with an electron microscope. Guess what – after seeing the heat of use, the rotors looked identical in every regard. This is not to say that there is not a benefit from treating other parts which see lower temperatures and/or have different material properties, but treating our rotors on our car showed no tangible benefits (note that it didn’t seem to hurt anything either). Come to your own conclusions, but in our case, we’ll pass.

    Summary

    So, what’s the secret recipe? Again, there is no absolute right or wrong answer, but like most modifications, there are those which appear to be well-founded and those that ‘look cool.’ If ultimate thermal performance is your goal, look to what the top teams are running (relatively large, slotted rotors). However, if ‘image’ is your thing, break out the drillpress – and be prepared to replace your brake pads on a regular basis.
     
  2. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

    Messages:
    30,015
    Likes Received:
    3,943
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    :thumbsup: been saying the same exact thing for a long time now
     
  3. TurboMirage

    TurboMirage YEEAAAHHH VIP

    Messages:
    24,577
    Likes Received:
    696
    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Location:
    Central, MA
    agreed.

    the only reason i have powerslots on my mirage, is that given the cost of the entire 2000 LS big brake kit, the rotors almost brand new cost me like 15 each.
     
  4. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

    Messages:
    28,465
    Likes Received:
    228
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    Dallas / Fort Worth, TX
    Good cut and paste.

    :werd:

    So... 14 inch rotors up front and 13 out back for me, slotted. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
     
  5. MikeBergy

    MikeBergy Blah blah blah....

    Messages:
    3,646
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2003
    Location:
    Central Coast, CALI
    on the s2k or civic...or hardbody :)

    I'm going with 11 inch rotors from fastbrakes.com and 2-piston legend calipers when I do a brake job next.

    I support the majority of what that site is saying, but bottom line is more pad area = more stopping power, and from a thermo standpoint, more rotor surface = more cooling area for heat transfer away from the rotors = less brake fade. But whether you need it for what you are doing or not is the big question that needs to be answered. That said, circuit racing was probably not what the OEM brakes were originally designed for, and that is why I'll be upsizing, although not too big, like Cal. :)
     
  6. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

    Messages:
    28,465
    Likes Received:
    228
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    Dallas / Fort Worth, TX
    Civic's dead, Hardbody is going to get 12s up front (cheap) and stock discs out back if any upgrade at all, and the S2k will get the monster brakes.

    I like big brakes, by the way. Gotta make the airbags pop when you stop! I've been on some pretty high speed tracks, and when you're lapping at over 150mph and have to rein things in really fast- you want some big heat sinks. I'm shooting for close to 400whp on a road course power curve, so I want the 14s if I can make them work.

    Want my Fastbrakes setup? :)
     
  7. totalburnout

    totalburnout Well-Known Member VIP

    Messages:
    7,068
    Likes Received:
    126
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2002
    Location:
    NJ

    You're shooting for 400whp in the s2k??? holy shit.


    If that happens, wow.... I'll want to see it.
     
  8. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

    Messages:
    28,465
    Likes Received:
    228
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    Dallas / Fort Worth, TX
    Yeah, way OT- but shooting for 400whp. It's doable on the stock internals too. [​IMG]

    400whp may be a bit high, but even 400 crank hp will make me pretty happy. That's definitely achievable. Lovefab's system runs a FLAT torque curve from 3000-9000rpm, and that was on a small turbo on 91 octane- and peaking at around 370whp.
     
  9. 92dxhatch

    92dxhatch Senior Member

    Messages:
    955
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Location:
    nor*cal
    so wanna sell you fast brakes?? how much??


    sorry to change the subject.


    Ryan
     
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page