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Bottom end build

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by stivic, Feb 11, 2006.

  1. stivic

    stivic Member

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    I have a B18C GSR, the head is being P&P with installed REV racing valves, titanium retainers and dual valve springs. I still have the stock GSR cams because I will turbo the engine and need to find some turbo cams correct?

    Now I am researching on what to do with my block and bottom end. I have read pages and pages on Bore vs. stroke but I am not sure which way to go. I like the idea of stroking to a 2.0L but I do want the motor to be durable.

    I will be sleeving the block to withstand boost regardless to the route I take and changing pistons to lower compression. As to which crank to use I have no clue

    In addition, the car will be a daily driver but will see some track time. Thanks ahead of time for any suggestions
     
  2. erebunicrx

    erebunicrx my name is Dale

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    how much power would you like to put down? you could keep stock bottom end and do close around 300 whp and still d/d it. also keep the cams there great unless you want ctr's go for it. some people will say get low duration turbo cams but i could post numorus dynos that say other wise. as for stroking it there would be no need if you were going to sleeve it you would just bore to 84-84.5mm and theres your 2ltr but that really depends how long you care if it lasts and how much power you would like to put down.
     
  3. stivic

    stivic Member

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    Yes it will be daily driven, and 300-400 WHP is my goal. On the other hand DART has a B18 block that has a 84.5mm bore and its built to withstand boost for about the same price of sleeving my stock B18 block, would that be a good way to go? Also with the 84.5mm bore would I need about a 92mm stroke from a crank in order for it to be a 2.0L? IF I go with the dart Block I will put all aftermarket internals and if I did that it would almost be a custom stroker kit? As to which rod lengths to go with in order to get the correct R/S ratio is beyond me but the DART B18 deck height is 226mm.

    I should go with lower compression pistons from like arias or endyne right?
     
  4. erebunicrx

    erebunicrx my name is Dale

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    dart block = $2500
    sleeving $1200 at most. i got mine done a golden eagle for $751
    84mm = 2ltr thats it no stroking no nothing. actually like 1.93 ltr or whateverbut 84.5 would be real close. pistons are personal preferance. for 350 whp i dont think i would sleeve it though. pistons, rods, intake mani and a good tune should be fine with a bigger turbo like sc61, t3t67, gt30r,

    here ya go http://www.hondaswap.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29364
     
  5. stivic

    stivic Member

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    Yeah your right but if I don't sleeve my block and just install pistons and rods would I be able to run enough boost (safely) to make 350 whp
     
  6. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    personally, i tell people not to go over 12 PSI on honda block without sleeves (assuming they are using some variety of a T3/04E...probably 57 trim .63/.63)

    our price for a dart block is 2129.00 with shipping. sleeving is CONSIDERABLY cheaper, and you get much similar results, unless this is a track only RACE CAR, the dart block is not what you want. Sleeving will be more cost effective and suit your needs better.

    I can get you a rotating assembly for your engine for a lil under 2k. JE Pistons, Eagle H-Beams and Eagle Crank. 87mm stroke, 85mm pistons (i converted the stroke in my head...its a 3.433 stroke, so i hope im telling you right) or you can get the same kit with SRP pistons (probably better for boost) for a lil over 1800 bucks.

    Hell, you send us the block we can sleeve it, bore it, hone it, deck it, assemble everything and send it back to you. i think we have 4 or 5 blocks in right now, so it might take some time, but we can definitely do it.

    Its really really all up to you...oh, and the turbos he listed, are HUGE turbos, holy crap kinda huge. with that on my H22, i could easily make 600 HP (built).

    I think tim is gonna be out at the shop tomorrow cause we didnt finish everything today, so just try givin him a call around noon CST, im sure hed be happy to tell you what we can do. especially if you are serious about this. i will tell you right now, this man does not play when it comes to engines. he looks like you kicked him in the balls when you tell him you want him to build you something with stock pistons and rods...If you tell him Fritts sent you, he will definitely treat you right tho. Hes always been good with my friends that i refer.

    check my sig for all the shop info.
     
  7. 97CTR

    97CTR Senior Member

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    Sleeve your gsr block to 84.5mm $1000
    Oem bearings and stock crank (micropolish and balancing optional)
    Eagle rods $350
    Pistons SRP, CP, etc. , pretty much your choice $350-$500
    Bottom end gasket kit $75
    new water and oil pumps if you choose
    moroso 5qt oil pan $250

    Thats my list of a pretty simple and cheap bulletproof bottom end. Ofcourse you can choose more expensive pistons and rods but you didn't give a budget so I went low. Also for a daily driver, don't stroke it.
     
  8. stivic

    stivic Member

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    Yeah you guys are right the dart block isn't worth it for a daily driver. Sleeving the block, eagle rods, pistons and the other components seem all fine. But using the stock crank will that hurt me if I'm running alot of boost? Crower makes a forged crank that has a stroke of 92mm but that would almost be like my own stroker kit wouldn't it making my motor a 2L (but even with just 84.5mm bore its a 1.95L)

    One more thing how does the R/S ratio come into play when Im buying the rods... do I have to worry about that or does the shop that I get to put it all together take care of it? I just dont want anything slapping the cylinder walls with the build
     
  9. erebunicrx

    erebunicrx my name is Dale

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    buy rods for the motor your using. your overthinking everything it just more simple then you think to make 350 whp. b16 is a 1.6 ltr and they can make 300 without much problems with the right tune. your motor is not limited to how much psi you run its how much horsepower you have. so first thing that could go would be rod bolts, piston ringlands melting. so i would say keep it a 1.8 maybe a .20 bore throw forged pistons in and eagle rods done.
     
  10. stivic

    stivic Member

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    Ok some of the eagle rods come with ARP bolts so I should just get the stock length for my motor but whats the difference between H-beam and I-beam rods and should the pistons I choose come with stronger ringlands?
     
  11. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    H-Beams are a more stout rod. they can probably take you to the 700 HP area, but the I-Beams are more like a stock replacement. wouldnt go over 350 on em.

    If you go with H-Beams, and its an option (dont have my catalog out anymore) get the ARP-2000 bolts. Best just to keep your rods attached to the crank. The normal bolts arent bad, just the rod will break before the bolts do if you get the ARP 2000s.

    for 300 horsepower you can definitely use your own crank, but the reason i mentioned the full rotating assembly is because you said you were interested in a stroker. if not, id just sleeve and overbore to 85mm and call it a day.
     
  12. stivic

    stivic Member

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    Ok, so to summarize my build Im going to do the following.
    Sleeve my stock B18 block
    bore out to 85mm making it 1979cc almost 2.0L
    Eagle H beam rods with ARP 2000s
    low comp pistons of my choice arias, endyne, JE (I heard flat dish have the best flow)
    stock crank
    Moroso Oil pan
    Anything else I'm missing?

    What about head gasket stock or thicker? and block guard do I need one

    (CRS5430A3D 5.430" stock dimension fitment for Honda B18C engines (including TypeR), now with 3/8" ARP 2000 bolts) Is that the correct eagle rods I should get?
     
  13. erebunicrx

    erebunicrx my name is Dale

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    yeah your missing the point of you dont need to sleeve foe 350hp. check out the devcon article on this site
     
  14. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    for 350 HP a block guard would not be necissary

    your part number is right for your rods.

    and he is right, you dont need to sleeve your block, this isnt an H22. with a properly sized turbo you could probably hit 350 with under 15psi.

    Im guessing on that one, but im sure itd be pretty simple. H-series is more of my area of expertise.
     
  15. stivic

    stivic Member

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    I'd like the motor to last though will running 15psi daily on a non sleeved block decrease its life
     
  16. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    if tuned properly...no, it will not decrease its life. sleeving is usually a safty feature for people running high psi. sometimes nothing has to go wrong for you to just bust the cylinder, but about 98% of the time, your ring lands go, break the slug pin, and you see a lil con rod peeking outa your block.
     
  17. stivic

    stivic Member

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    Ok you guys make a good point I dont really need to sleeve the block. But getting it bored to 85mm without sleeving would that be bad since the cylinder walls are going to be thinner. Also do aftermarket pistons come with stronger ringlands and slug pins
     
  18. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    tis true. usually its someone who ground the rings for N/A rather than turbo. The rings touch and the lands go POOF.

    From what i can tell, it seems JE doesnt recommend the 85mm for B18s, but eagle sells them with their stroker kits...im kinda confused. ive never bored a GSR to 85, so i really couldnt tell you what youd be risking. i dont think eagle would sell them if they were unsafe....


    READ THE FINE PRINT...ALWAYS READ THE FINE PRINT.

    "Solid Iron Sleeves required for 84mm+ bore."

    And then the new JE catalog (opposed to the 2003 i was looking at before) has an N next to everything 82mm and above. Meaning you need to resleeving. so just ignore everything i said earlier about not sleeving.
     
  19. stivic

    stivic Member

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    On that website the Wiseco pistons are 86mm bore that will make it a 2.0L anyway I just would like more displacement I mean turbo will give me torque yes, but turbo + more displacement = more torque... right
     
  20. stivic

    stivic Member

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    Yeah your absolutely right I'm definately doing some more research before I start planning. The only thing about a B20 block is that I cant seem to find any cheap ones around the only ones I see are dart B20s and they are like 2000 bucks so sleeve my B18 and bore it out a little for like half the price of a B20
     
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