Brock Lesnar to attend UFC 74

[Cashizslick]

Fedor isn't UFC though... yet mwa haha

and Caz of course the 155lb weight class is the best, we're all 5'5"

and before you think smaller guys can't knockout I would remind you of

Ok you need to go back and actually read what was posted (inserted again below). Your buddy totalburnout is the one saying that only heavyweights can land with knockout power . .

You couldn't be more wrong. Why do you think there are weight classes?

Two 155lb'ers land blows on eachother with the same force (on a proportional level) as two 250lb fighters.

Yes the 155lbr's dont hit as hard, but they are smaller and have less mass to absorb the impact. Therefore, the punches do the same damage.

 

[totalburnout]

"I never said a 150lb person hits harder. I said that when a 150lb person hits somebody in their weight class, they will hit them (the other 150lb person they are fighting) just as hard as a 250lb person hitting somebody in their weight class."

I read what you wrote. A 150lber can not inflict the same damage as a 250lber, thats the meat of my argument.

Why does a 250lber inflict more damage? The power of their punches is greater. This is simple and basic, yet you argued with the idea and said that the damage is proportionate.

Once again, a 250lber inflicts more damage than the human body can handle on a more regular basis than a 150lber can - this is why the heavyweight division has more knockouts, not because of poor technique.

Never once did I say that a 150lber cannot knock someone out, because clearly they can but the damage they do is far less significant than a heavyweight. Clearly there's more knockouts in the heavyweight division, this is why more people have traditionally watched heavyweights, and its not directly related to form but rather size.

 

[totalburnout]

Fedor isn't UFC though... yet mwa haha

and Caz of course the 155lb weight class is the best, we're all 5'5"

and before you think smaller guys can't knockout I would remind you of

UFC 3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Silver,

Read before you comment.

Never once did I say that lighter guys cannot knock produce knock outs. Sherk is a prime example of someone that fights at 150lbs, that is usually 175lbs and a freak of nature even at that weight. Of course he can rain knock out blows. Even string beans in the 150lb division have knocked out people, we all know this.

I said that there's not as many knockouts with the smaller guys due to their size.

Caz's argument is that there are less knockouts because of the skill level and technique of fighters. Clearly this misses the mark.

 

[totalburnout]

Blanco,

I don't think that bigger and stronger will always win. I think that if you're an athlete in all senses of the word and you're strong, you have the edge on an opponent who simply has well rounded technique.

Look at the Sherk fight against Hermes. Hermes had better technique but Sherk was able to walk through his strikes and push the pace of the fight until Hermes was entirely exhausted, due to Sherks conditioning.

I feel that many times you think that technique will simply rank supreme and be the victor. You probably feel that I think that strength will always rank supreme and be the victor.

I feel that if you put a fighter with mediocre technique in great shape against a couch potato with amazing technique, that the one that is in better shape will come out on top. Thats just my opinion and what I've seen over the years.

I'm a fitness nut and work out constantly so of course I'm going to side with "my people" and go along with the idea of "out working" your opponent. Thats the kind of place I came from, I don't care if I was out fought but a better fighter, but I sure as hell would not be out worked.

 

[Cashizslick]

A 150lber can not inflict the same damage as a 250lber, thats the meat of my argument.

No shit sherlock. However, when a 150lber hits another 150lber, the result will be the same as a 250lber hitting another 250lber. Thats why there are weight classes.




I love how you state the obvious with authority in your tone.

"THE SKY IS BLUE GOD DAMMIT!!"

 

[Cashizslick]

I said that there's not as many knockouts with the smaller guys due to their

That is not the least bit true.

The smaller guys (although smaller) will inflict the same amount of damage on their smaller opponents as the larger fighters do in their weight class.'

Thats why my argument is correct.

Caz's argument is that there are less knockouts because of the skill level and technique of fighters. Clearly this misses the mark.

Watch a heavyweight fight. Those slobs drop their hands and close their eyes and swing the moment they get tired.

The smaller, and more technical fighters keep their form till the bitter end.

 

[totalburnout]

No shit sherlock. However, when a 150lber hits another 150lber, the result will be the same as a 250lber hitting another 250lber. Thats why there are weight classes.

NO

How could the result be the same if we agree the power of each punch is different? The answer is the result isn't the same. Is a heavyweights head inches thicker and it absorbs more? I don't think so.

Its called a threshold. The human body has a threshold for injury, that is it can only withstand so much before it can no longer effectively respond and compensate.

Heavyweights are past this threshold on a general basis. This is why they can dish out those one shot blows that knocks some one out cold.

Lightweights are not past this threshold.

I'm not arguing this any further because its idiotic. Any person can see that there's a difference and thats why there's weight classes. Weight classes are to keep competition even because size, strength, speed, etc. are all close to one another within a weight class.

Weight classes aren't developed so the punches are even across the board, like you suggest.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

just as there are 250lb men with glass jaws there are 150lb men that can rock 300lb dudes

I think he's getting the wrong idea by forgetting to remember that there is always an exception to every rule

 

[totalburnout]

Dude, why are you so incapable of seeing such a blatantly obvious point? He's saying that a 150lbs fighter has just as good a chance of knocking another 150lbs fighter out as a 250lbs fighter has of knocking another 250lbs fighter out. That's why there are classes, to keep things even. The lighter fighters just tend to be more technical.

Now watch Human Weapon and see 150lbs men do things that you won't think is possible.

My point, they do not have just as good of chance or the number of knockouts would be similar.

You're talking about chance and probability being the same, this means that over time they results would prove to be consistent.

This is not true, there are less knockouts by 150lbers, which is what I said.

Since there are less knockouts by 150lbers there much be a defining factor that separates these fighters from the heavyweights.

Caz's argument is that the defining factor is technical ability.
My argument is that the defining factor is strength and power.

I'm not speaking in absolutes, as Silver is suggesting.

Fact is, generally, there's more knockouts by heavyweights. If lightweights have just as good of chance of knock outs, why are there less knockouts? This is the real question.

Blanco, I'm sure the show is a great show, but I'm not going to believe Caz's argument because it may have been covered on a popular TV show. Thats like saying because Myth Busters dismissed a theory, they must be correct.

On a side note, I hate you all for failing to read the thread and understand the argument.

 

[totalburnout]

just as there are 250lb men with glass jaws there are 150lb men that can rock 300lb dudes

I think he's getting the wrong idea by forgetting to remember that there is always an exception to every rule

This is not the argument.

If you've read what I've wrote, I'm a Sean Sherk leg humper and would argue that he could knock most out but that he's a rarity.

Generally speaking, of course, heavyweights have more knock outs. Look at the numbers historically. This proves my point.

 

[n8zdogg]

Wouldn't one think Lesnars strength would grappling submission not striking?

 

[Capt. Orygun]

If you've read what I've wrote, I'm a Sean Sherk leg humper and would argue that he could knock most out but that he's a rarity.

it is not a rarity that a juiced up roid freak is uncommonly strong

Wouldn't one think Lesnars strength would grappling submission not striking?

yeah, he'll be the equivalent of Matt Hughes, just with a bit more power in his punches pound for pound

 

[Cashizslick]

Haha

Dude, why are you so incapable of seeing such a blatantly obvious point?

I think he's getting the wrong idea by forgetting to remember that there is always an exception to every rule

Everytime totalburnout opens his mouth, it is made plainly obvious that he is a total moron.

I have no idea what college he goes to, but it is most definitely true that he is far behind his classmates in the areas of intelligence and reasoning ability.

 

[B16RacerN2NR]

Hell, watch the Muay Thai episode and see what real kick boxing is instead of the crap technique you see in MMA

I disagree with this. I think in terms of technique an MMA fighters doesn't look as crisp compared to a Muay Thai fighter's because MMA fighters need to worry about getting taken down. For instance, Sherk said if a boxer squared off on him with the proper boxing technique, he'd laugh because he'd be able to kick the boxers lead leg real easy. He never said their technique was crap, just not the proper one when fighting in MMA. So with that being said, I don't think an MMA'er has a crappy technique, just a different one to adapt to the MMA style.

Silver, what do you mean Fedor isn't UFC yet? Don't forget UFC bought PRIDE. Yeah I know he isn't under contract in the UFC, but he's pretty much a UFC fighter now, hell, they all are lol.

 

[B16RacerN2NR]

Using what works is what it's all about. I'm looking at things like body and hip positioning when they throw techniques. Their bad technique cuts down on the effectiveness. I'm not saying it won't still hurt, just that it could hurt a whole lot more.

ok, that makes more sense