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building the infamous ls/vtec....

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by JDMEG-6, Dec 20, 2006.

  1. JDMEG-6

    JDMEG-6 wek sos

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    i know this topic has been posted millions of times.. and yes, i have done my research.. i have about an inch thick of papers in front of me...:D

    well, heres the deal...
    i have a b18a1 LS motor (roughly: 130@6000 hp and 121@5200 trq.....9.2:1 ...dohc non vtec obd0)

    -i know that the ls does not have vtec oil passage so i was planning on getting the golden eagle vtec conversion kit?!?
    -use the oem ls head gasket
    -gsr water pump.. and timing belt..
    -arp head studs and rod bolts..
    -any vtec oil pump will work right? best bet gsr?
    -b16a head for the better airflow
    -pct pistons? p73? or p30?
    -chipping the stock p28 ecu for dohc vtec? b16a1 ecu? or p28/hondata?
    -LS rods and crank (balanced)?
    -new rod and main bearings
    -new head gasket, oil pan gasket, rear main seal, oil return gasket, oil filter, thrust washers, rotating assembly balanced
    -header (not sure which one yet)
    -gsr or tr tranny
    -310cc injectors? adj. FPR?
    -crank girdle?
    -a/b dohc vtec dizzy
    -b16a IM
    -94-01 gsr knock sensor?

    my goal is to reach 250-260whp.. is this reasonable?¿?

    tell me what you think.. opinions and suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

    keep in mind i want to stay n/a no turbo...(maybe later down the road)

    the swap is going into a 94 civic h/b...

    -thanks-
     
  2. AHHVTEC

    AHHVTEC Well-Known Member VIP

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    i dont think it will reach that at the wheels more like 200-210 if your lucky
     
  3. JDMEG-6

    JDMEG-6 wek sos

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    is it possible at all... and still be n/a.??
     
  4. AHHVTEC

    AHHVTEC Well-Known Member VIP

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    yes but it will take oversized pistons and large cams ect ect
     
  5. JDMEG-6

    JDMEG-6 wek sos

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    any info you would change ^^ so that i can achieve this goal..
     
  6. AHHVTEC

    AHHVTEC Well-Known Member VIP

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    well as this is just what i would do, the list looks ok but get some big cams and have it tuned real good.and see what that gets you
     
  7. Citizen_Insane

    Citizen_Insane Senior Member

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    Go to the auto media section below the member's lounge. There's a guy running an H22 bored to 2.4L fully built making 260hp N/A. You won't be hitting that with a 1.8L trust me.

    Edit - here's the link: http://hondaswap.com/auto-multi-media/collective-racings-pro-all-motor-hatch-76712/

    Honestly, if you have to ask how to do something as extreme as a 260whp N/A Honda, you can't do it. The people that build these motors probably have over $10k invested in the swap alone, not to mention the rest of the car. If you want that much power (and its a LOT of power) turbo. I'd suggest going for something more mild and spending the extra $$ on decent suspension so your car will actually be fun to drive.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2006
  8. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    i would get a set of itr pistons ls crank (better displacement and higher lift) knife edge it ls rods, get the whole system weighted and balanced. get buddyclub stage 4 cams (remember the itr pistons are flycut so less chance of piston to valve contact) upgrade to dual valve springs from skunk2 or ferrea or buddyclub ner valves and retainers and an lsd in your tranny you will hit 140-165ftlbs of tq and around 250-260 hp to the wheels, with drag slicks and whatnot you should be in high 11's mid 12's
     
  9. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    i just completed this setup with my integra but i used the b18c1 block with the same mods, you will be around a 12:0:1 cr or 12:5:1
    you will be very happy with the build if you get everything weighted and balanced, also safe to take it to around 9k rpm and the whole setup if you already have the head and the block cost around 2 or 3k
     
  10. JDMEG-6

    JDMEG-6 wek sos

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    thanks for the input...
    yeah money really isnt an issue.. i plan on taking my time with this one.. i dont want to get in a rush and overlook something..
    so the more time i take., the more money i can put into it..
     
  11. 94_gs-r

    94_gs-r can you say 260 whp N/A??

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    doin that setup i just told u will save lots of money and i would rely on honda factory parts more the after market, plus you will pay around 2k to just get a crank and rods and pistons
    i spent 50 bucks on a crank and 350 on flycut new itr pistons and stock ls rods
    save some money. tq is the lowdown... the head is where the moneys gotta be
     
  12. reikoshea

    reikoshea HS Troll...And Mod Moderator VIP

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    btw, p30 pistons are easier to come by, and they will net you better compression. PCT pistons are a little bit over the top for anything but a track car (seeing as you will be pushing 14:1 compression at that point)

    add those p30s to some sick cams (like skunk2 stage2) and youll be good to go.

    Dont forget the DOHC VTEC (B16/GSR/ITR they are all the same) oil pump. It helps.

    As for your other questions.

    the golden eagle kit comes with a head gasket, so you can use that, and if you get the $340 kit, it comes with head studs.

    Lightning Motorsports - Golden Eagle - Lightning VTEC Conversion Kit COMPLETE -

    You definitely want the 310s and the FPR (FPR helps with tuning), you wont need a knock sensor if youre tuning with a p28, the crank girdle wont be needed, and id DEFINITELY recommend picking up ARP rod bolts.

    You should be set after that.
     
  13. formby

    formby learning in progress

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    STOP DROP and ROLL

    dont put so much money into a car bro. its a waste, just give your self 2.5k [+/-500] budget for a nice FI set up and then stop spending. youll have 300+ hp, youll never stop spending. if you go NA

    unless your rich, in that case:buyanm:
     
  14. formby

    formby learning in progress

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    i realy should change my my avatar







    but they look so sexy
    that is all
     
  15. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    Stop dreaming. It's easy to throw around "250whp", but you need to take a ride in a built LS/V pushing the average 200-220whp, THEN talk about what you want.

    You've got to understand that it doesnt take that much to get our little rex's and vic's movin.. hell, they're fun to drive completely stock with 85whp... then throw down 200? damn. it's a blast.
     
  16. JDMEG-6

    JDMEG-6 wek sos

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    the only reason i said the 250-260 range is cause a buddy of mine is runnin a b16 turbo and is only throwin down 240whp...
    just was wonderin if it would be possible to reach on n/a and he be turbo...
     
  17. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

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    well, i hope we've throroughly covered your question.. if not, please feel free to ask anything else!
    GL with your engine goals!
     
  18. JDMEG-6

    JDMEG-6 wek sos

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    other than the hp... does the setup sound pretty descent? anything yall might change?
     
  19. Exodus

    Exodus Junior Member

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    If you want to go turbo, build it to handle it for the future and break it in NA. I think that would be easier on you and your wallet.

    Maybe try this...

    B18A1 Block:
    - Balanced rotating assembly
    - ARP rod bolts\head studs
    - Golden Eagle VTEC Conversion (buy the system, not the kit)
    - ENDYN crank girdle
    - ENDYN Roller wave pistons (9.5:1, 81.5mm), get the skirts coated, (they offer other mods to the pistons too for more performance, the coating is the least you'd want to do for peace of mind)
    - Overbore to 81.5mm, hone, check the deck for straightness, etc..
    - ENDYN Block posts
    - ENDYN modified ITR oil pump
    - GSR Timing belt\water pump (OEM Honda!)
    - OEM Honda Oil filter!
    - Fluidampr Crank pulley
    - Machined (balanced) lightweight flywheel, stepped up clutch\pressure plate (recommend Clutch Masters)
    - Maybe* ENDYN PCV Breather tank system (*down the road items, when you boost)
    - Maybe * Moroso Oil pan & pickup

    Head:
    - Adj. Cam Gears (recommend Golden Eagle E8S)
    - Get an OBD1 B16 dizzy
    - HyTech header (2.5") 4-2-1 (or OEM B16A\B18C5 headers)
    - RC Engineering 310cc injectors
    - ADJ. fuel pressure regulator\gauge
    - Leave the cams\valvetrain alone until you boost
    - When you do: ENDYN Bump Stix, Road Racing Springs, Valves, Titanium Retainers
    - ENDYN modified Bosch fuel pump (in-line installation)


    -Hondata S300 P28 ECU
    - Oil Temperature\Pressure Gauges
    - Don't bother with an a\f gauge
    - Don't bother with VAFCs
    - Maybe get a voltmeter, if you want it
    - Consider ITR\CTR head components if you stay NA for a while, changing out the pistons would help with that, but you can keep the LS rods and crank, just use good pistons.
    - If the head has to get milled, machine the dowels down by that much
    - 3-5 angle valve jobs\port work are other things to look into, but the factory B16 heads flow well to begin with, many shops decrease performance on them when porting (at least around here lol)
    - Either way, once you get that pulled together, you can run low compression tuned out (or get a thinner head-gasket for while your NA, and change it when you put the turbo kit on), and be prepared for light upgrades with the turbo, making the turbo operation less costly by doing some of it now.
    - Having the bottom end balanced and strengthened, slightly bored, and mostly reworked will keep it healthy under boost, if you don't exceed 20lbs, it will last you a while.
    - Look into Total Seal piston rings btw
    - 10-12lbs of boost on that bottom end, with a stock head, adj. fuel and Hondata will be PLENTY for you for a while and good for a lot of power. (I'm not throwing out any uneducated estimations that are in the 400s here), but I would bet near 300, +\-20. If you want more, you can upgrade the head\intake more without messing with the turbo system (and losing that much more money), do some more tuning afterward, and then have a well tweaked engine.

    - You could look into stroking\sleeving\15+lbs etc... but this is a more budgetable setup for the time being. B16 heads are great out of the box, and can work with a turbo for a while as well before needing any modifications. Posting the bottom end (good for <20psi) and giving it a girdle will add plenty of strength, and balancing the bottom end, using that pulley and flywheel, and tuning it well with Hondata (or any other good software with a capable tuner) will all help keep it sound and less likely to experience problems.
    - The golden Eagle kit, ENDYN modified ITR oil pump, and PCV breather kit are all good ways to improve and guarantee longer engine life as well, other kits besides Golden Eagle have been know to cause failures, the ITR oil pump will always perform and never let your engine suffer for oil, and the PCV breather kit is great for the increased crankcase pressure during higher revs under VTEC (which LS blocks weren't ready for).

    - Maybe get a YS1 trans with an LSD and an LS 5th gear, and you'll be happy with this car. Make sure your brakes and suspension can hang with it, safety is KEY!
     
  20. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    :werd: It's doable, and you can actually do it for not TOO much cash if you get all the right parts the first time.

    It's doable for a decent price.

    If you really want to know how to get there, search for threads about my old engine setup. That build was set up properly for 250-260whp all motor. I had the chassis all prepped for handling that power level on the road course too.
     
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