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Building the LS head

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by CRXSI91, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. CRXSI91

    CRXSI91 Senior Member

    ok,im going for a turbo setup..ls turbo...but right now im about to build the head...heres what i want to do,but i got a issue i need some input on :

    2.Crower stage 1 cams,retainers,springs,valves, and cam gears
    3. PNP
    4. 3 angle valve job

    now i know that the cams are not "turbo profile"...but i want to rev a little bit higher (7200) and gain a little bit more NA power on the stock compression...will i run into any problems going with a stage 1 cam on a turbo setup?...my setup goal is about 275 to 300 whp...(yes i am gonna build the block too)....any input or warnings?
  2. formby

    formby learning in progress

    dude dont spend all that money on a $50 head...just save and do the vtec head swap...
  3. CRXSI91

    CRXSI91 Senior Member

    id rather my Build be reliable
  4. erebunicrx

    erebunicrx my name is Dale

    i would look into 402's. 401 i think are almost a stock replacement. a newer ls revs till 7200 stock
  5. CRXSI91

    CRXSI91 Senior Member

    thank you..finally someone that realizes that u dont need Vtec AND turbo..its not necessary...pick one or the other...all i gotta do is clean the ls head up,and build it,and it will flow just as good as a vtec head..and the best part about it..they are cheap heads..so if i blow it (which i wont..im bulletproofing it)...i can just get another for 100 or 150....another good thing is..i wont have to worry about ls vtec oil conversion lines,and other bullshit,when my LS head can still make 300 whp if tuned correctly...its all about tuning,not Vtec.
  6. CRXSI91

    CRXSI91 Senior Member

    i still have one unanswered question though..i looked into the crower turbo profile cams..i looked at the duration and lift numbers and they dont look too bad...but the thing is..im not gonna be boosting until way after i build the head...so i dont wanna throw some cams in there,that are worse than my OEM cams,or that throw my powerband off...im leaning towards the stage 1's,cus i want that extra power without the turbo,but if the turbo cams are what i need,then i will get those..
  7. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy Senior Member

    the ls cams are fine for turbo, save some money.
  8. brian11to1

    brian11to1 Senior Member

    yea, save some money. Crane stage 1's wont make 275-300. Crower 403-T's may... but get LS cams... save money
  9. driver1

    driver1 Senior Member

    if u want a turbo build than biuld a turbo build...otherwise there is no happy medium....unless you want to buy 2 of alot of engine parts
  10. noshow

    noshow Member

    vtec and turbo get turbo lag a low rpms or until the vtec kicks stage1 cams a waste of money your going to notice it better with stage 2 stage 1 cant tell the diff. in the car
  11. noshow

    noshow Member

    oh forgot buy another 50 ls head and build it and wait wuntil you get the turbo
  12. 94CivicSlow

    94CivicSlow Senior Member

    just because the LS head isnt hard to comeby does not mean its junk. Im currently building an LS head with Crower .5MM oversized valves, port / polish ports, gasket matched, 3 angle valve job, crower dual valve springs, titanium retainers, and crower 403 cams.

    Vtec is not the only way to get power.
  13. CRXSI91

    CRXSI91 Senior Member

    you have to remember,im going turbo..so the higher powered cams,the more tuning,and air problems im gonna run into later on..thats like trying to run a all motor cam in a turbo setup car.
  14. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

    wtf did you say? vtec and turbo lag have next to nothing to do with each other....

    anyway, what you want are the 402T.

    who cares if its 5hp off when you're all motor. one you're boosted, it will make a big difference.
  15. beerbongskickass

    beerbongskickass Senior Member

    LS/Vtec's are reliable as long as you build it right. I would get a vtec head and build the bottom end. A built LS head will cost more than a stock vtec head... that's an easy choice.
  16. CRXSI91

    CRXSI91 Senior Member

    Ok lets see here..will a Vtec head thats SWAPPED on,and built,cost more than a ls head thats built?? lets do the math :

    B16 or gsr head = 400 or 700 dollars$

    of course its not complete..so we gotta get a distributor = 150$

    New head studs,and rod bolts = 150$

    ls vtec conversion kit = 60$

    P28 or some kind of obd 1 ecu,cus obd 0 aint gonna cut it = 125 to 150$

    now lets say we want to build it...fuck stock cams...lets put some crower turbo profile cams in there....400 bucks$

    then we need valve springs,retainers,and valves = all together,about 300 to 400$

    then we need cam gears = 100$

    but hey..of course we cant just adjust them and everything be all good..we gotta get on the DYNO!!!..its 100$ an hour for dyno tuning...lets say we are there for two hours = 200$

    wow....ls vtec more cost effective than just building an ls head?? bull shit...i know u like ls vtec and all...and it is powerful..but its not worth it anymore..its only worth it for all motor setups...no one needs no god damn vtec when they are boosting...thats what the turbo is for...why not just have a regular head,that gives u power at normal working rpms..then waiting for 5500 to say "im fast" ....???

    building the ls head :

    pnp = 300$
    3 angle valve job = 300$
    Crower complete valve train = 300$
    crower turbo cams = 400$
    crower cam gears = 100$
    chipped p28 with hondata and conversion harness = 275$
    dyno time = 200$
    arp head studs = 60$

    now of course..with the ls head,u dont NEED all of this stuff..but with the vtec head on the other hand..u do....u cant just slap a vtec head on a ls block,and it be reliable..cus everyone ive talked to,has had some time of "Vtec" or "oil" problem..which makes the whole thing stupid,if your going to boost...its not needed...just build the CHEAP and aBUDANT ls head..and boost it,and u will do the same thing an ls vtec turbo will do..maybe faster,because u didnt have check engine vtec oil pressure lights coming on for 3 months,before u could figure out what was wrong...

    and by the way..when i finish my build beer bong..ill put it on the dyno..and show you that 300 whp on a ls turbo..is the same shit as 300whp on a ls vtec turbo setup...the only difference is....their car sounds different at 5500?? :lol:
  17. brian11to1

    brian11to1 Senior Member

    CRXSi91 - you need to calm down on this VTEC isnt needed rant youre on. I do have one question for you. Can you use ITR inner/outer Valve Springs in the LS head? There's a debate on non-vtec.com about that. I plan on using them, but I checked Crower and all B-Series VTEC Valve Soprings have a different part number than non-VTEC heads. I was told that VTEC Springs were taller, I want someone to varify this.

    Measure the actual height of a VTEC spring then compare it to a non-tec is the only method I can think of.

  18. CRXSI91

    CRXSI91 Senior Member

    brian..i have nothing against Vtec..but people automatically assume that if you dont have vtec when u boost,then your setup,or head isnt worth boosting...if people want to build an ls head,and boost that,then they should be able to do it without hearing "you should have got a GSR head"..or some bullshit like that...by me opting to build the ls head,that saved me a few good months worth of saving,and dumping money into parts to PREP the head to go on..not even to build the head..im trying to be boosting by mid summer or earlier..and the fastest way to do that..is take an already reliable head,that can be built to flow good,and build it,and boost it...who cares if they arent OEM Flow ready for boost...we are all in this hobby to spend money..so u should be able to spend money on whatever u want,and still be able to hang or beat someone with vtec or not...i guarantee you,the way my build is going...anyone with ls vtec,i will stomp them 5 times over..now the only time i will admit that i should have gotten Ls vtec turbo..is when i come up on someone else,that has ls vtec turbo..and i only have ls turbo..and they beat me..because then its a logical reason...but other than that...i still wouldnt care..cus im not out to be the fastest in my state...im out to have a turbo honda,put down some serious power to the wheels,and have fun..thats it...and i dont need vtec to have fun...thats all im saying...im not knocking vtec...i just dont think people should knock LS heads.
  19. brian11to1

    brian11to1 Senior Member

    Im not Mr. VTEC. All my friends who have Honda's have VTEC. Im basically the onlyone who opted for a non-vtec swap in my car. I swapped a B20B into my 90 Integra. So I know where you are coming from. I've been searching for a P8R head since I heard about them on nonvtec.com. I know about non-VTEC performance. I have thought about doing a CRVTEC. But I too came to the conclusion, I could have my car back on the road a lot sooner if I didnt. I weighed the options and possible outcomes of each scenario. VTEC came out on top each and every time. But, I want the satisfaction of beating a VTEC car (99-00 Si, ITR... swapped EF's) with my high compression, all motor nonVTEC build. I understand where you are coming from. When you get your build done, I would like specs on it. Right now, I am set on All-Motor... but Im leaning towards boosting the B20 and then building an all mot LS engine for the next car I get which will be yet another Integra, most likely my friends 90 Sedan for $1K. Having identical cars would be bad ass...

    So to clearify, I understand were you are coming from. And yes, all the ricers will tell you... "Oh you's need VE-TAK to be teh winnar" That statement simply isnt true. Since you are going on LS-T... you should check out http://nonvtec.com & My Site

  20. 94CivicSlow

    94CivicSlow Senior Member

    Im picking up my LS head from the machine shop 2day!!

    Crower valvetrain
    Crower 403 cams
    Crower .5mm oversized valves
    3 angle valve job. All new seals

    Im gonna laugh so hard when I walk on Vtec civics

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