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Built K24 runnin E85 in a 94 Del Sol

Discussion in 'Civic and del Sol - EG and EK' started by HONDAgravedigger, Nov 2, 2009.

  1. HONDAgravedigger

    HONDAgravedigger New Member

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    This is the swap I want to do. I know it will be very hard but can you guys that have been doing impossible swaps tell me whether to walk away or go with another engine. I'm grabbing at straws here so helpful wisdom would be very much appreciated. Also, My Del Sol is OBD1. Are all K series OBD2? I'm guessing they are since that changed around the late 90's or so.

    I'm a rookie at this but I'm a perfectionist. I don't know much but I got a guy that's going to teach me and help me swap my first engine. I know you're going to say B SERIES cuz it's plug & play and that would make sense for my first engine BUT! I'm the kinda guy that likes the bad news first and to get the worst over right away.

    If this setup is possible or there is a better one please give me your insight. Whatever engine it is I will be running E85. Not sure about turbo or supercharging yet. I want to see how far E85 on all motor will go. I know there's a WRX out there pushin over 550 HP on E85 and it runs great.

    I'm looking to build this car once and keep it for life. It's going to be my gift to my girlfriend and the honda tuning world. I want honda guys to take interest in my build most of all. It's kindof boring to talk about boosted B18C1's for a decade. I have a 94 civic Ex and a 92 prelude Si I can rebuild if I get bored.
     
  2. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    Frankly, there's no point to it. you can get any power level you can out of e85 that you can with regular gas. and its not cheaper either (it is, but you use more of it per mile, rendering it even).

    The K is an expensive swap already. converting it to e85 is another expense.
    for that cost, you could easily have a 500+ hp b18c, and not worry about trying to find e85 (its not around here at all... and frankly, its a dead fuel at this point. most ethanol grants are over and the govt is exploring other options now).

    If you want to "do it to be different", go for it.... but it will cost you double at least to say so. never worth it IMO.
     
  3. HONDAgravedigger

    HONDAgravedigger New Member

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    The whole reason I want to run E85 is it runs cooler on the engine so hopefully it doesn't have as many issues when I street drag it. The car will only be driven a few times a week so filling up won't be an issue. There's 5 E85 gas stations in the city I live in so that's not a problem. Also E85 conversion kits are only $300-$500 depending on how many cylinders. This price is nothing in the tuner world.

    Also money isn't really the issue. I want the E85 cuz it doesn't get the engine as hot producing more power at a cooler temp. I want the 6th gear is the main idea and the 200HP platform to work off.

    It's a great idea. I just need to know if it will work and how hard will I have to work.
     
  4. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    Honda's have little over heating problems. If that's your main reason for doing it, i think you should do some more research on the subject.


    You're venturing into virgin territory. Simply put, if you're not capable of answering it yourself, no one else is going to be able to help you with anything specific.
     
  5. 95b16coupe

    95b16coupe New Member

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    the short answer is, "you can build something a helluva lot better for a helluva lot less".

    while you spend money on that, someone else is building an NA B-series, i'll build a turbo LS for under $6,000 and run 11's.

    if you were going to do something like that, seek out some sponsors. if you foot the bill, you wont finish it and still waste at least $10,000.
     
  6. Matts96HB

    Matts96HB . Moderator VIP

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    Methanol. Cooler temps (if you're worried about it) and also can help you with more power if used that way.

    I don't see your logic behind the overheating. I have a 96 hatch with a triple core aluminum radiator and an LS turbo setup on 320whp, I had no problems running in 70+ degree weather running it hard from light to light. Do a proper cooling setup and you wont have any issues with temp.
     
  7. riceracerex

    riceracerex D-Series Ninja

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    So, that was the bad news... urm. Welcome to Honda Swap!! ^_^
     
  8. newb

    newb phresh VIP

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    I like the K series Sol idea. I dont like the E85 idea tho. It takes too much attention to detail on the fuel system to be worth it. Itll be cheaper and easier to make equivelant power with standard 10% ethanol pump gas. If money is no issue, then just build a boosted K series and throw it in. Thatll make you different, and itll make the car badass. Until Honda introduces another motor. Then, the K will be the new B and your uniqueness will start to fade.
     
  9. riceracerex

    riceracerex D-Series Ninja

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    There is a new 3.2 liter v-6 swap.
     
  10. HONDAgravedigger

    HONDAgravedigger New Member

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    The v6 sounds like somethinginteresting to research.

    I really like the idea of the K swap because I can get the 6th gear. How many del sols have you seen or heard of with a 6 gear setup? That's the biggest perk for me. Running the ethenol is just something I see some of the really fine detailed pro tuners doing and it sparks my interest.

    If i'm getting into the tuner scene (which i am fresh on) I don't want to do the same stuff tuners have done for years. Almost nobody runs ethonal cuz they don't see the point in spending the $. This causes a huge ? in the advantages of running ethenol. Also it leaves the pro's and con's unknown to many except the pro tuners with the cash.

    I agree I need to get sponsored not only for the money but also for the right connections to complete a build like this. I'm always looking for the next best thing and so are companies so maybe this will help my chances of getting the right sponsor.

    The whole idea for the ethenol fuel is there's so much power you can harness without running anything but ethenol fuel. I want to run the engine only first. Then if it's possible I will address the possabilities of using a turbo or supercharger. My ? is how can people say that ethenol wouldn't be worth the swap if there's such minimal information out there on it?

    Everything I've read about these pro tuners running ethenol is possitive. You have to think, these pro tuners have been running turbo/supercharged 10% ethenol fuel for years. Now they switch to E85 and everything they have to say about it is possitive. If professionals are happy with the results then why not do it?

    Also if my fuel helps the engine run cooler then that's less shit I need such as, intercooler, oil cooler ect. and that leaves me with lower costs and less systems to manage and less components to faulter. Granted my fuel system will have these possabilities but I think it would be worth it. That also leaves the entire cooling system open for ideas in the future when I decide to turbo or supercharge it.

    I honestly think the hardest decision of this build will be if i'm going to use the K series or not. My biggest questions and concerns lie within the motor fitting properly, motor mounts (fabricated unless aftermarket is available), the 5 to 6 gear conversion, cv axles and most of all the wiring. As the engine would be OBDII I believe and my car is OBDI.

    I plan on having all of the wiring done by the best professionals so there will be the least amount of problems when I put the engine in. The rest of the items in question I have been researching but it takes up alot of my time after work and on the weekends. If there's anyone out there with ideas on using the K series swap and which K is best. I was looking at a K20A2 from a type R integra (JDM). I'm sure there's a better one out there but i'm not familiar with the K series at all.

    Money isn't the issue. It's going where few or no tuners have gone before. Hell, if there's an entirely different setup entirely that gives me the 6th gear and will fit in the del sol (and still be drivable) I have my ears open. Almost any engine can be converted to ethenol and i'm pretty set on doing it so that's not the topic of discussion anymore. What engine and where can I research it? Wiring issues I will encounter and the OBDII to OBDI conversion are my main concerns.
     
  11. HONDAgravedigger

    HONDAgravedigger New Member

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    The v6 sounds like somethinginteresting to research.

    I really like the idea of the K swap because I can get the 6th gear. How many del sols have you seen or heard of with a 6 gear setup? That's the biggest perk for me. Running the ethenol is just something I see some of the really fine detailed pro tuners doing and it sparks my interest.

    If i'm getting into the tuner scene (which i am fresh on) I don't want to do the same stuff tuners have done for years. Almost nobody runs ethonal cuz they don't see the point in spending the $. This causes a huge ? in the advantages of running ethenol. Also it leaves the pro's and con's unknown to many except the pro tuners with the cash.

    I agree I need to get sponsored not only for the money but also for the right connections to complete a build like this. I'm always looking for the next best thing and so are companies so maybe this will help my chances of getting the right sponsor.

    The whole idea for the ethenol fuel is there's so much power you can harness without running anything but ethenol fuel. I want to run the engine only first. Then if it's possible I will address the possabilities of using a turbo or supercharger. My ? is how can people say that ethenol wouldn't be worth the swap if there's such minimal information out there on it?

    Everything I've read about these pro tuners running ethenol is possitive. You have to think, these pro tuners have been running turbo/supercharged 10% ethenol fuel for years. Now they switch to E85 and everything they have to say about it is possitive. If professionals are happy with the results then why not do it?

    Also if my fuel helps the engine run cooler then that's less shit I need such as, intercooler, oil cooler ect. and that leaves me with lower costs and less systems to manage and less components to faulter. Granted my fuel system will have these possabilities but I think it would be worth it. That also leaves the entire cooling system open for ideas in the future when I decide to turbo or supercharge it.

    I honestly think the hardest decision of this build will be if i'm going to use the K series or not. My biggest questions and concerns lie within the motor fitting properly, motor mounts (fabricated unless aftermarket is available), the 5 to 6 gear conversion, cv axles and most of all the wiring. As the engine would be OBDII I believe and my car is OBDI.

    I plan on having all of the wiring done by the best professionals so there will be the least amount of problems when I put the engine in. The rest of the items in question I have been researching but it takes up alot of my time after work and on the weekends. If there's anyone out there with ideas on using the K series swap and which K is best. I was looking at a K20A2 from a type R integra (JDM). I'm sure there's a better one out there but i'm not familiar with the K series at all.

    Money isn't the issue. It's going where few or no tuners have gone before. Hell, if there's an entirely different setup entirely that gives me the 6th gear and will fit in the del sol (and still be drivable) I have my ears open. Almost any engine can be converted to ethenol and i'm pretty set on doing it so that's not the topic of discussion anymore. What engine and where can I research it? Wiring issues I will encounter and the OBDII to OBDI conversion are my main concerns.
     
  12. phyregod

    phyregod !!YTINASNI

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    If money isn't an issue, go build a supra. Or something other than a del slow. Seriously.
     
  13. HONDAgravedigger

    HONDAgravedigger New Member

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    The idea stuck in my head is getting max HP out of the enigne and keeping the cooling system as stock as possible. That way when I decide to push a turbo/supercharger I have the entire cooling system to work with for the best results.

    I don't see the point in working my way from the end to the beginning. If you can run fuel that boosts HP and runs cooler then that's the place to start. Then add an intercooler or oil cooler. It's like car stereos. If you can build a 210 amp alternator for $600 that will provide the extra power, do that first. Instead of buying two more batteries that get charged from the same alternator.

    If you can start the perfomance of your engine at the pump for a reasonable price, why not?
     
  14. phyregod

    phyregod !!YTINASNI

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    So why start with a four cylinder honda?

    Go build something gnarly, like that supra.

    You need to figure out exactly what it is you want. Stop worrying about cooling systems and fuel types and figure out exactly what your goal in the end is, then work up a solution to get to that goal.
     
  15. HONDAgravedigger

    HONDAgravedigger New Member

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    Has to be Del Sol

    If I didn't mention it before I'm building this car for my GF to drive in the summer. She loves the car. She wants it fast. I don't want to build the same engine as everybody else so the build is more or less for my enjoyment and interests. She wants a 6 speed so that's why the K series is the most sensable donor. My GF isn't going to be gunning down the road to work in it but when I want it to be a car I wouldn't mind driving either.

     
  16. c_champagne

    c_champagne New Member

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    Then do the K-20 swap and dont worry about the fuel issue, youre going to have enough headache doing the swap,or do like I did for my wife and get her a 08 MUGEN SI and be done with it.And she'll have a 6 speed and wont care about the sol anymore.
     
  17. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    a bone stock k20 in a del sol is more than fast enough for your girl to wrap her self around a pole with. think about her life VS her driving skill before you throw her ina 400hp car.
     
  18. FLounder

    FLounder power hungry VIP

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    :withstupid: a k swap in the delsol would be plenty quick. theres a chick from miami running 12s in the 1/4 with a k20 all motor integra, and its DD capable.
    [​IMG]

    do you know how much of a beast a 400+ hp fwd car is on the street? even 300whp is a lot really. if you have to dd it, youll get tired of driving it pretty quick i can tell you that
     
  19. HONDAgravedigger

    HONDAgravedigger New Member

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    Ya. I'm trying to land around the 350-400 whp range now. I could do that on all motor witht the right tuning. The swap donor is going to cost a lot and I don't see the point in a turbo or supercharger since my girls gonna be driving it. My side intentions were also to put it in shows. A Del Sol with a 300-400 whp all motor Kswap would be plenty of a show. I also want the car to be a summer car she will be driving to work. I'm trying to wieght out the best options to make the car stand out in a show yet be streetable enough for stop and go traffic.

    You guys are helpin me make up my mind. Time to look for a motor. Which of the K's would give me the 6th gear and the best options for HP in the end. She loves torque if that helps.
     
  20. FLounder

    FLounder power hungry VIP

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    k24 bottom, type s head, type s trans is probably your best bet.

    higher compression, cams, bolt ons and tuning should land you in the 250-300whp area, and it will be torquey and plenty fast for a DD.
     
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