EXtremeAccord
Senior Member
(insert Stallowned!1! pic here)
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We as people aren't perfect and if the 'experts' can substaniate their claims and it appears as if its true, then thats what the government has to go on.
Originally posted by Kcihcaton@Dec 8 2004, 02:18 PM
What would be considered a credible resource? Pictures? Since you say anything anyone says can be bs.
[post=428575]Quoted post[/post]
Originally posted by Battle Pope@Dec 8 2004, 02:19 PM
I honestly have no idea how you could win a rational debate and keep things civil. You are quite possibly one of the most belligerent people I know.
[post=428579]Quoted post[/post]
Originally posted by Sabz5150@Dec 8 2004, 03:18 PM
New2thePolitcalScene can't hold his ass in a debate if a gun where pointed to his head. He shows NO proof of what he says, NO evidence to back up his claims and complely walks around every question.
LOL, no wonder he's a republican shill.
Anyway, fun time!
"..the US - and several countries in the region - are also keen to commercially exploit the vast oil and gas reserves in Central Asia, and believe that Afghanistan holds the key.
Several countries are exploring the idea of building a pipeline from Central Asia across Afghanistan to Pakistan and beyond - something that would be impossible without a stable Afghanistan. " http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1537244.stm
Total oil reserves of the Caspian Sea region, estimated at above 200 BBL (billion barrels), exceeds that of Western Europe and/or the United States (110 BBL) and puts it in second place after the Middle East (700 BBL).
Everyone from Hitler to Bush has wanted their hands on Caspian oil.
The US wanted a plan to construct a pipeline from the oilfields in “Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Kazakhstan, through Afghanistan and Pakistan, to the Indian Ocean”. The Taliban would not go for it and that is when a US representative, Tom Simons, threaten the Taliban, “Either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs.”
Well, guess what happened.
Zalmay Khalilzad, a former aide to Unocal was named envoy to Afghanistan after the Taliban were defeated. http://usembassy.state.gov/afghanistan/wwwhbiozal.html
Do the mention Unocal? Nope. Why?
Khalilzad was an advisor for the Unocal Corporation. In the mid 1990s, while working for the Cambridge Energy Research Associates, Khalilzad conducted risk analyses for Unocal for a proposed 1,400 km (890 mile), $2-billion, 622 m³/s (22,000 ft³/s) natural gas pipeline project which would have extended from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zalmay_Khalilzad
Wow! The same guy who did the analysis of the pipeline just happened to be the person Bush appointed as ambassador and who signed the contract building that very same pipeline that the Taliban would not agree to. This is, of course, after we bombed them.
One guess is all you need to figure out who got the contract. Halliburton.
Moving on...
"When the reports surfaced, Haifa bint Faisal, wife of Saudi ambassador Bandar bin Sultan, acknowledged that she sent nearly $150,000 to the wife of a Saudi living in San Diego. The recipient, Majeda Ibrahin Dweikat, signed over some of the checks to a friend whose husband, Omar al-Bayoumi (with Dweikat’s husband), helped hijackers Khalid Almidhar and Nawaf Alhazmi find housing in San Diego, open bank accounts, get Social Security cards, pay expenses and arrange flying lessons in Florida."
Bandar... the guy we give secret service guards to 24/7. The guy who personally knows Osama. The guy in this picture:
Nothing more needs to be said.
Now, if you can disprove this data WITHOUT walking around the issues, please do. None of this "that aint a reputable source like FOX!" bullshit.
[post=428617]Quoted post[/post]
Originally posted by Battle Pope@Dec 8 2004, 04:00 PM
I'm not out to win any battles. I'm through participating in this discussion because I'm tired of being insulted for opposing your viewpoints.
[post=428664]Quoted post[/post]
Originally posted by Battle Pope@Dec 8 2004, 04:15 PM
I'm just going to stay away from politically oriented threads.
[post=428681]Quoted post[/post]
perhaps its not always as it appears
Originally posted by dohcvtec_accord@Dec 8 2004, 05:39 PM
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com
Some really great stuff on this site about how Moore spliced together video/audio tapes from different speeches, used shady sources to back up his statements, and outright fabricated "facts", all to further his PERSONAL OPINIONS, which some people with smaller brains see as a documentary. The site originally started to debunk "Bowling For Columbine", but expanded when Moore's next set of lies (F911) was released.
I vote both sides, according to what I believe. People like Moore need to be dragged naked down a dirt road.
[post=428780]Quoted post[/post]
Originally posted by Sabz5150@Dec 8 2004, 04:28 PM
And executives of corps like Fox News need to be tortured and burned ALIVE.
You believe the right wing wackos, I believe the left wing ones.
[post=428833]Quoted post[/post]
This site is not here to change anyone's mind about anything except the honesty of Michael Moore. It is not here to make you love guns, conservatives, republicans or Charlton Heston. It is not here to make you hate Marilyn Manson, gun control lobbyists, liberals or even Michael Moore. It's here to give you the truth that Moore withholds and perverts on a regular basis to fid an ideological gain.
These facts and information are here to let you make informed decisions - not necessarily different ones.
The main purpose of the site is to reveal the outright lies and extreme spin that Michael Moore displays as fact in his work quite regularly - most notably in his most popular film Bowling for Columbine. The purpose is to give you the information you didn't see in the movie that is important to your decision making.
Originally posted by dohcvtec_accord+Dec 8 2004, 06:33 PM-->Sabz5150@Dec 8 2004, 04:28 PM
And executives of corps like Fox News need to be tortured and burned ALIVE.
You believe the right wing wackos, I believe the left wing ones.
[post=428833]Quoted post[/post]
I don't know that the execs of Fox News need to be burned alive. They tend (TEND) to report the truth, but only one-sided (i.e. Republican) truths. There are plenty of right-wingers that also need to be burned alive, true. I'll agree with you there.
Anyway, I don't believe "right-wing wackos". Nor the left. Here's an excerpt from the guy's site:
This site is not here to change anyone's mind about anything except the honesty of Michael Moore. It is not here to make you love guns, conservatives, republicans or Charlton Heston. It is not here to make you hate Marilyn Manson, gun control lobbyists, liberals or even Michael Moore. It's here to give you the truth that Moore withholds and perverts on a regular basis to fid an ideological gain.
These facts and information are here to let you make informed decisions - not necessarily different ones.
The main purpose of the site is to reveal the outright lies and extreme spin that Michael Moore displays as fact in his work quite regularly - most notably in his most popular film Bowling for Columbine. The purpose is to give you the information you didn't see in the movie that is important to your decision making.
That's all. While the guy may be a right-winger (as shown by the links on his personal site), he's not spinning the truth. Someone here asked for a case-by-case dispute of Moore's movie(s). I provided them.
[post=428838]Quoted post[/post]
Originally posted by Sabz5150+Dec 8 2004, 04:42 PM-->Originally posted by dohcvtec_accord@Dec 8 2004, 06:33 PM
Sabz5150@Dec 8 2004, 04:28 PM
And executives of corps like Fox News need to be tortured and burned ALIVE.
You believe the right wing wackos, I believe the left wing ones.
[post=428833]Quoted post[/post]
I don't know that the execs of Fox News need to be burned alive. They tend (TEND) to report the truth, but only one-sided (i.e. Republican) truths. There are plenty of right-wingers that also need to be burned alive, true. I'll agree with you there.
Anyway, I don't believe "right-wing wackos". Nor the left. Here's an excerpt from the guy's site:
This site is not here to change anyone's mind about anything except the honesty of Michael Moore. It is not here to make you love guns, conservatives, republicans or Charlton Heston. It is not here to make you hate Marilyn Manson, gun control lobbyists, liberals or even Michael Moore. It's here to give you the truth that Moore withholds and perverts on a regular basis to fid an ideological gain.
These facts and information are here to let you make informed decisions - not necessarily different ones.
The main purpose of the site is to reveal the outright lies and extreme spin that Michael Moore displays as fact in his work quite regularly - most notably in his most popular film Bowling for Columbine. The purpose is to give you the information you didn't see in the movie that is important to your decision making.
That's all. While the guy may be a right-winger (as shown by the links on his personal site), he's not spinning the truth. Someone here asked for a case-by-case dispute of Moore's movie(s). I provided them.
[post=428838]Quoted post[/post]
Moore has a case-by-case rebuttal on his site for his movies, stating facts (mostly on F911), a lot of which I have researched myself and found to be true. I will agree that a lot of into is based on speculation, but goddamn... how can you see the line of greasy palms and blood and not go 'WTF?!'. From Bush's relationship with the Bin Ladens and Bandar, to Halliburton and Unicom's role in what's going on in the middle east, something smells really funky and it's this administration.
New2 said "I never said the one of the major causes for being over there is economics, thats the cause behind all wars even if it is unspoken. You don't just go conquer land or start a war for the hell of it, anyone can point this out."
We weren't supposed to be there for *ANY* economic reasons whatsoever! This was to take out a terrorist group and capture Binny and the Jets, not drive out the governing body to push a gas pipeline through. THAT is lying to the people.
My point is that this administration does not have our best interests in mind. There's way too much conflict of interest to even suggest they are.
As an aside, there are a lot of extreme leftists I could do without.
[post=428846]Quoted post[/post]
Originally posted by dohcvtec_accord+Dec 8 2004, 04:49 PM-->Originally posted by Sabz5150@Dec 8 2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by dohcvtec_accord@Dec 8 2004, 06:33 PM
Sabz5150@Dec 8 2004, 04:28 PM
And executives of corps like Fox News need to be tortured and burned ALIVE.
You believe the right wing wackos, I believe the left wing ones.
[post=428833]Quoted post[/post]
I don't know that the execs of Fox News need to be burned alive. They tend (TEND) to report the truth, but only one-sided (i.e. Republican) truths. There are plenty of right-wingers that also need to be burned alive, true. I'll agree with you there.
Anyway, I don't believe "right-wing wackos". Nor the left. Here's an excerpt from the guy's site:
This site is not here to change anyone's mind about anything except the honesty of Michael Moore. It is not here to make you love guns, conservatives, republicans or Charlton Heston. It is not here to make you hate Marilyn Manson, gun control lobbyists, liberals or even Michael Moore. It's here to give you the truth that Moore withholds and perverts on a regular basis to fid an ideological gain.
These facts and information are here to let you make informed decisions - not necessarily different ones.
The main purpose of the site is to reveal the outright lies and extreme spin that Michael Moore displays as fact in his work quite regularly - most notably in his most popular film Bowling for Columbine. The purpose is to give you the information you didn't see in the movie that is important to your decision making.
That's all. While the guy may be a right-winger (as shown by the links on his personal site), he's not spinning the truth. Someone here asked for a case-by-case dispute of Moore's movie(s). I provided them.
[post=428838]Quoted post[/post]
Moore has a case-by-case rebuttal on his site for his movies, stating facts (mostly on F911), a lot of which I have researched myself and found to be true. I will agree that a lot of into is based on speculation, but goddamn... how can you see the line of greasy palms and blood and not go 'WTF?!'. From Bush's relationship with the Bin Ladens and Bandar, to Halliburton and Unicom's role in what's going on in the middle east, something smells really funky and it's this administration.
New2 said "I never said the one of the major causes for being over there is economics, thats the cause behind all wars even if it is unspoken. You don't just go conquer land or start a war for the hell of it, anyone can point this out."
We weren't supposed to be there for *ANY* economic reasons whatsoever! This was to take out a terrorist group and capture Binny and the Jets, not drive out the governing body to push a gas pipeline through. THAT is lying to the people.
My point is that this administration does not have our best interests in mind. There's way too much conflict of interest to even suggest they are.
As an aside, there are a lot of extreme leftists I could do without.
[post=428846]Quoted post[/post]
I haven't seen F911, nor do I plan to. When I saw Bowling For Columbine, it got me genuinely interested in Moore. Then, I did some research, and found him to be a fat lying sack of shit. I lost most respect for him, and that causes me to disbelieve any of his assertions that he may make in F911. He may have very well made some truthful cases in F911. But I'm also sure there are lies in there, as well.
Also, in this thread, I never once defended nor attacked Bush. My sole quest was to disprove the waste of oxygen and food we know as Michael Moore.
That said, I wholly approved of Bush's actions in the months after 9/11. I was even willing to believe him when he tried to convince us as to why we went into Iraq. Now, however, I'm sorely disappointed in his actions, and would have loved to have seen him booted out of office. I was not willing, however, to vote for that slimy asshole the Democrats gave us to run against him. I mean, come on....Gore and Kerry? the Democrats could have put a fucking APE up there instead of those two guys, and Bush wouldn't have gotten elected in 2000 OR 2004. But they give us THE TWO WORST choices they've ever given us, and then whine (not directed toward you guys) when their candidates get defeated. That's why I have no sympathy for the Democrats' plight right now.
[post=428853]Quoted post[/post]