Bush lovers read this...

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why would you watch a political movie that is anti bush and was made by a anti bush person and believe it? lol

thats like watching an anti martin luther king movie that was made by the kkk and believing it.

watch farenhype 911 imo and see how much you adore farenheit 911 after that.


for the record im not for or against bush, i didnt vote because i dont give a shit.

but im not going to believe every piece of political propaghanda thrown at me
 
Originally posted by micah@Dec 8 2004, 09:38 PM
but im not going to believe every piece of political propaghanda thrown at me
[post=428928]Quoted post[/post]​


And your smart at doing so. Of couse f911 was propaganda. There was some bending of truth in there, and there was some that was solid facts. In addition, it did make people think.

Also, if you think that this is the only propaganda used in the 2004 election, or bush has never used something similar think again.

Just look at comments made here. People have been afraid to speak against the president in fear of sounding "unpatriotic" (including people right here on this forum)

ATTORNEY GENERAL JOHN ASHCROFT: "To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve." (12/7/01)

A statement like that is exactly shows you the propagand this regime has thrown at the people. They have used the "fight against terrorism" as a way to pave there way to a dictatorship.

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." Bush (CNN 12/18/00)

"A dictatorship would be a lot easier." Bush (Governing Magazine, 7/98)

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it." Bush (Business Week, 7/30/01)

Thomas Jefferson once said "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
 
Originally posted by Blanco@Dec 8 2004, 06:54 PM
I'm still waiting for New2TheCarScene to post even one of his "scholarly journal" resources. Hell, even I will post sources for what I'm talking about. Remember when I said "get off of your high horse" to you? That would be the reason for this topic and its 100% focus at you. Those are facts.
[post=428858]Quoted post[/post]​



And what exactly am I getting scholarlly sources for? Speculation and opinion are sort of hard to refute, facts on the other hand aren't. So if you're asking me to refute his opinion and speculation based upon SOME facts, thats a difficult case to make.

I didn't deny the fact that the primary cause of war was an economic issue to secure the oil, but hey that benefits you and I not just Mr. Bush. Keep in mind that all wars are a result of material things.

I'm simply saying you can't draw a conclusion that because somebody knows somebody who knows somebody who's brother once took a piss with Bush that you can make claims such as that because personally theres nothing thats very true printed out there. What Moore created was bullshit and thats the biggest thing to point the finger at Bush. NO EVIDENCE I'VE SEEN HAS BEEN ABLE TO PROVE WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT THIS WAR IS ONLY A RESULT OF BUSH'S CONNECTIONS WITH THE OIL INDUSTRY. SHOW ME SOMETHING THATS ROCK SOLID THAT PROVES THIS...YOU CAN'T BECAUSE IF YOU COULD, BUSH WOULD BE IN FEDERAL COURT RIGHT NOW.


The sources posted were entirely slanted, but he drew conclusion from those facts.


One should be hesitant when reading and 'believing' anything thats political based, it all has an agenda.
 
"People have been afraid to speak against the president in fear of sounding "unpatriotic" (including people right here on this forum)"

This claim is absolutely ridiculous and absurd. Show me one person afraid to speak about the president here or anywhere else, I assure you if they are it is their own psychological problem.

I don't kiss Bush's ass even if I do agree with the War. This doesn't mean that I'm just kissing his ass. Its my own personal opinion that this War was a long way in coming and needed to happen in order to reassure our position in the world and fulfill the need to help 'those in need' not just nationally but internationally that was set in place back in the 50's and 60's after the Truman Doctrine and the other Acts and Doctrines during the era. Unfortunately for you, you have a distorted point of view that just because I support the nation in this time of war does not mean that I'm a mindless robot that just follows exactly as the president says. Get that out of your head. This is why I'll get on anyone here because it seems as if almost everyone on this board is of the same opinion as yours. I question all presidents since I've been old enough to be able to. I questioned Bush Sr., Clinton, and GWB all the same.

I don't support Bush's view on stem cell research, abortion, or religion. I have a mind of my own, I'm able to draw my own conclusions even if you don't feel they're correct. I guess that makes me a mindless zombie who doesn't question the government when I for one can probably make the fairly accurate assumption that I care more about these issues than most people. As already stated above I love learning and furthering my educating. If I make posts seeming knowledgable about damn near everything on this board, its because I like to have my hand in as many things in life as I can. If it interests me than you better believe that I'm going to look further into it. ...but I'm just a patriotic man who's a mindless robot who doesn't question the government. - to asmallsol and Blanco.

...and then for you to go on in your post acting like Bush is the only president to use propaganda...atleast thats the way it seemed as if you threw it out there.
 
If you don't get it, new2thecarscene, you're talking about how great you are, and how you're the best debater, and you tear people to shreds, and you know this and that, but you aren't presenting anything more then words that retort what someone's saying, but don't give point to yourself. Anyways....


Who ever dissed on clinton, shame on you.

Clinton was busy getting a standing ovation from the UN when the monica lewinsky trial was being broadcasted on abc.

A feat, that "morally just" bush I don't think will accomplish soon.

As our president though he must be supported. He's OUR leader still.
 
Originally posted by Blanco@Dec 8 2004, 07:48 PM
The one thing that I really like about Michael Moore, is he gets people thinking. Look at the amount of research some people have done into F911 to either prove or disprove the content. This is mere speculation but, I'd venture to say that there wouldn't have been even half of that research done if that movie was never made. Whether his points are good, bad, or indifferent, Michael Moore gets people thinking and that actually is a good thing. It's just up to the individual to decide whether or not to take that information at face value.
[post=428897]Quoted post[/post]​



I'm still wondering if you've seen the movie. I believe you vehemently denied it but I caught almost an exact quote from the movie in another thread, perhaps a source just wrote near what Moore said and you took from that. :ph34r:
 
Originally posted by Slammed89Integra@Dec 8 2004, 11:07 PM
If you don't get it, new2thecarscene, you're talking about how great you are, and how you're the best debater, and you tear people to shreds, and you know this and that, but you aren't presenting anything more then words that retort what someone's saying, but don't give point to yourself. Anyways....


Who ever dissed on clinton, shame on you.

Clinton was busy getting a standing ovation from the UN when the monica lewinsky trial was being broadcasted on abc.

A feat, that "morally just" bush I don't think will accomplish soon.

As our president though he must be supported. He's OUR leader still.
[post=429019]Quoted post[/post]​




Clinton was giving the go code to drop the bombs on baghdad after the heat was on him about lewinsky. The U.S.S. Cole was bombed months prior and he didn't act, he finally decided to act when the heat was on him about her. :)

Two sides to every story.


And guess what buddy, I'm glad you think I'm tooting my own horn. Meet me in person and see what people think of me and how they value my opinion. :) If I'm in a debate or dicussion class, the professor and class stop to listen when I speak. In a couple hundred person lectures, 99% of the time I'm the first person for the professor to know by name, to be praised, and to carry on discussions out of class with the professor because he values my opinion greatly.

But then again, I'm just tooting my own horn and I'm not actually a very intelligent person who's well respected. :) :p
 
Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Dec 9 2004, 12:12 AM




Clinton was giving the go code to drop the bombs on baghdad after the heat was on him about lewinsky. The U.S.S. Cole was bombed months prior and he didn't act, he finally decided to act when the heat was on him about her. :)

[post=429024]Quoted post[/post]​



You said this in another post and I called you out, and I will do it again. Under clinton, US bombed Iraq December 16, 1998. USS Cole was bombed October 12, 2000.

USS cole happened 2 years after the bombing of Iraq and had zero correlation.
 

You said this in another post and I called you out, and I will do it again. Under clinton, US bombed Iraq December 16, 1998. USS Cole was bombed October 12, 2000.

USS cole happened 2 years after the bombing of Iraq and had zero correlation.
[post=429042]Quoted post[/post]​



Excuse me, I stand corrected.


The event I was thinking of was the embassy bombing not the bombing of the U.S.S. Cole, I don't know why I confuse them.

http://encarta.msn.com/sidebar_1741587987/...le_Strikes.html

The idea remains the same. Directly after a terrorism act Clinton did not bomb Baghdad, it wasn't until he was brought to trial. Others say that he was provided information by the CIA on the day or two prior but one can relate that to Bush being provided information of weapons of mass destruction. Some would say that it was simply because the information he received at the time but others would SPECULATE BY CORRELATION/RELATION (JUST AS YOU GUYS ARE SPECULATING ABOUT BUSH AND HIS OIL CONNECTIONS BEING THE ONLY CAUSE FOR THE WAR) that Clinton did it to take the heat off the drama at home.

You can be the judge.
 
Off topic.

Ehh, I Still think he was the best politician in the last 15 years, by far.

Did you see him with the interview with brian jennings during his library opening?

I have so much respect for the man now.

Not saying I don't have respect for GW, but Clinton just puts me in awe sometimes, hearing his charisma, etc.
 
One reason why the oil fields were guarded so well is that they are going to be the primary source of revenue for Iraq, not the museums, or holy sites.

Think outside of the narrow scope, and it's pretty clear why strategicly the things that are going to make a new ecomony thrive were protected, while others were left "unsecured" (which I know more than a few soldiers that have spent plenty of weeks guarding museums, and will tell you that is BS anyway).

Fact is no matter how big the invading force was, some things were going to be left out of the plan.
 
Originally posted by Blanco@Dec 9 2004, 11:15 AM
I honestly don't have a problem with letting museums and holy sites get looted, as long as it's not American's doing it yadda, yadda, yadda. I'm more concerned about the lack of security for all of those explosives, I would hope high explosives would be somewhere near as important as the oil fields. I mean, that is a lot of what you guys are facing right now, and I do realize that you know that far better than I. That's my biggest problem with gaurding the oil fields so tightly.

[post=429223]Quoted post[/post]​

I understand the publics wonder about the missing RTX/HTX, but fact is that the car bombs, roadside bombs are 99% motar, and artillery rounds as well as demolition removed from mines wired inside the cars. Even with all the weapons caches we found in Fallujah there was no trace of these or similar explosives. We found a lot of interesting munitions like egyptian, russian and many other rockets, old warheads, and a few 500+lb bombs, but nothing like that.

Personally I am curious myself to where as they actually went to. I'd speculate that they have long since been transfered out of this country for use elsewhere if they did indeed wind up in the wrong hands, or through the chaos simply "lost".
 
I didn't deny the fact that the primary cause of war was an economic issue to secure the oil, but hey that benefits you and I not just Mr. Bush.


BULL FUCKING SHIT

did you get YOUR check from halliburton yet, cause i sure as fuck didn't... and i haven't seen gas or oil prices drop, so how the fuck does a war that costs our us soldiers lives help you or i???

This claim is absolutely ridiculous and absurd. Show me one person afraid to speak about the president here or anywhere else, I assure you if they are it is their own psychological problem.


again, bull fucking shit

one prime example, that chick from the dixie chicks...
you speak out against bush around the wrong people and your career suffers...

War was a long way in coming and needed to happen in order to reassure our position in the world


hmm, so why didn't bush just come out and say we're doing this cause it needs to be done?
instead he beat the war drums trying to connect saddam with 911, and saying he was a threat and had WMD

SADDAM was NOT a threat... proven many times over...

If I'm in a debate or dicussion class, the professor and class stop to listen when I speak. In a couple hundred person lectures, 99% of the time I'm the first person for the professor to know by name, to be praised, and to carry on discussions out of class with the professor because he values my opinion greatly.


hmmm, i know your kind...
and your classes are a far stretch from the real world my friend...
 
Originally posted by Blanco@Dec 9 2004, 05:15 AM
I'm not asking for specific articles, I'd just like to know what qualifies as worthwhile reading a publication. I'm sure that when your professor talks, he doesn't just say "those scholarly journals that you all know". And I actually readily admit that I've seen F911, but don't pat yourself on the back thinking that that's where I get my line of reasoning.



Theres complete databased for scholarly journals, its where you're supposed to go if you're any expert or even a college student that needs evidence to support a paper or lecture or whatever it may be.

Also each major field of study has its own databases for scholarly journals and writings, primary sources, etc.

Medievalsourcebook.com, Psych vale, etc., etc. Here's a sample annotated reference I did for a psych class. Its long if I posted all of them, but every source was a Trade Journal made specificially on psych. issues.

"Blouin, Arthur G., & Goldfield, Gary S. (1995). Body image and steroid use in male bodybuilders. International Journal of Eating Disorders, 18(2), 159-165.

This study examined the hypothesis that male bodybuilders may be at high risk for body dissatisfaction which as a result may cause unhealthy behavior such as steroid use. Three groups of athletes, body builders, runners, and martial artists were given a questionnaire. The results of the questionnaire reported that bodybuilders had a significantly larger body dissatisfaction than other groups. Bodybuilders reported significant elevations on measures of perfectionism, ineffectiveness, and lower self-esteem and the greatest use of anabolic steroids and the most liberal attitudes toward usage. The study concluded that bodybuilders are at high risk for body image disturbance and associated psychological characteristics that are common among people with eating disorders. The study determined that these were prerequisite to steroid use.?

Ebscohost.com is a database comprised of scholarly journals but you have to be a member to access it. I would have to set it up for remote accessing at home if I wanted to search here as opposed to in college.


And Blanco...you've vehemently denied atleast four or five times telling me basically that I was an idiot when I said that you watched F 9/11. The response that I received everytime was basically your way of saying "No way, stfu!" It makes me wonder why I even bother... I could tell for a long while now that half the shit your quote of say regarding this subject comes very VERY closely to everything Moore said in his movie. ...and as I've told you and as I would tell Moore, proven by the things posted about him splicing together comments and giving it a huge slant to make F 9/11 just meaningless crap spouted as propanda, what you say doesn't hold much ground.


I agree with you on a lot of things you say, but I don't post everytime going "oh yeah what he said!" So if its as if I'm out on a witch hunt, thats not how it is at all. Infact, I think you're one of the few people in my entire life that I ever just gave up on in terms of arguing.
 
BULL FUCKING SHIT

did you get YOUR check from halliburton yet, cause i sure as fuck didn't... and i haven't seen gas or oil prices drop, so how the fuck does a war that costs our us soldiers lives help you or i???


OPEC controls oil prices. They're the nice gentleman who caused all the gas shortages in the 70's not because there wasn't enough oil but because they felt like only releasing a little over here in order to increase the price. They've been fucking the US blind for decades now.

What this have to do with Iraqi oil, well any Oil that we take and doesnt go to OPEC well then we can put the price lower to try to offset the price hikes by OPEC. Thats how it benefits you and I.

Think god damnit.


again, bull fucking shit

one prime example, that chick from the dixie chicks...
you speak out against bush around the wrong people and your career suffers...


Her career suffered because the majority of us that aren't extreme left wingers told her to 'shut the fuck up' because we're not buying your music anymore. Bush ruin her career, she ruined her own. I know my dad was a big fan of Dixxie Chicks and even though he's a musician he's more of a moderate then a left winger, and I dont believe he's bought any of their albums recently. The lady was a bimbo and had no idea what she was talking about.

Moore is outspoke against Bush and that MADE his career, he makes his living off of that.

Where in the hell does your argument hold ground, as I said originally. It can go either way speaking out against the government, if people agree and they're who supports your income then you're going to benefit if they disagree then well tough luck for you. ...thats not Bush's problem, thats their own dumbass problem because they pissed their customers off.

If the guy at Best Buy told me to fuck off, I wouldn't buy anything from there. She essentially did that to a lot of her fans and customers who disagreed with what she said.


hmm, so why didn't bush just come out and say we're doing this cause it needs to be done?
instead he beat the war drums trying to connect saddam with 911, and saying he was a threat and had WMD

SADDAM was NOT a threat... proven many times over...


Politically you can't just say "oh I want to go to war, even if this guy is a bad guy" Sadaam gased his own people, did you want him to be able to do that and have it go unpunished? I sure don't because I would hope somebody would come and save me if Bush started gasing us. He needed to be ousted even if you don't think that he was proven to be a threat. I believe that it was a very reasonable thought that he founded terrorism and I'm not quite sure if I can truly say 100% that I dont believe a man such as hisself hasnt already or wouldn't fund terrorism. Intelligence said there were weapons of mass destruction over there, that gives legality to a war that needed to happen ever since the Gulf War....if only things were done right then and we got him, but unfortunately our attempts failed then.


hmmm, i know your kind...
and your classes are a far stretch from the real world my friend...
[post=429274]Quoted post[/post]​

And this is why nothing you ever say will be more than just spatter coming out of your mouth.

You know my kind? My kind, the kind entrenched in educational works are normally far left wingers....they probably would agree with SOME of the crap that was said here...doesn't look like I did that. Hmmm, looks as if I'm different from the typical person that you're thinking of.

Make assumptions all your life and well it will make an ass out of you....NOT ME.

I'm not solely into education, I'm an businessman as well along with many other things, its just something that I ENJOY TO BETTER AND FURTHER MYSELF.
 
What this have to do with Iraqi oil, well any Oil that we take and doesnt go to OPEC well then we can put the price lower to try to offset the price hikes by OPEC. Thats how it benefits you and I.


so you think major corporations are going to undercut OPEC prices? or do you think maybe they'll charge the same price?

i think they will go to make as much profit as they can...

and again, this all makes money for the corporations, and is funded by the american taxpayer...

seems to be working out very well in lowering fuel prices now doesn;t it???

so again i ask, this FUCKING HELPS US HOW, and why is it worth american lives???

Think god damnit.


yes, and your superior thinking leads yuo to think that these oil companies are gonna give us a deal??? lmao

i challenge you to think as well...


Politically you can't just say

which proves my point that bush mislead the us citizens to push his own agenda of removing saddam from power...
dispute that for me...


Sadaam gased his own people, did you want him to be able to do that and have it go unpunished?


ok, so why didn't we have support form the UN???
and how come its fucking american lives going to save those fucks???
i didn;t see anyone coming to rescue us from the british...
we may have had aid, but we had to fight for our own freedom...
and our US troops get shat on by those people we are "trying to help"
great... fuck them


He needed to be ousted even if you don't think that he was proven to be a threat.

ok, so if he wasn't a threat then why did he need to be outsed besides bush's own personal agenda?

Intelligence said there were weapons of mass destruction over there, that gives legality to a war that needed to happen ever since the Gulf War....if only things were done right then and we got him, but unfortunately our attempts failed then.[/


intelligence was FUCKING WRONG
bush was wrong
so there goes the legality of said war...
and things weren;t done right because there was no exit plan, there was no way to go in and get out without it becoming a whole cluster fuck... and thats what it turned into

so now let me restate, american soldiers are over there dying cause the intelligence community fucked up, and bush was wrong, and the war was mismanaged...

and yet you continue to say how right he was to invade iraq even though the PRIMARY purpose for this war has proved to be completely ficticious and false...

and people like you = BROWN NOSERS, has nothing to do with your supposed pursuit of "education"
go kiss your holy professors ass some more with your credible sources that you've failed to show...
 
and i really love how bush's reasoning for war went from WMD's to fighting terror and developing democracy...

now lets consider the war on terror...

go look in any of your scholarly journals and show me how invading iraq had helped ANYWHERE on the war on terror???
its diverted troops and funds, and accomplished nothing but to divert us from our main goal, being fighting terror...

i believe your scholarly journals will prove me right on this one...
 
well, i saw footage of quite a few "terrorist traning camps" being raided and dismantled.

Buildings filled with bomb making materials, passports, and various containers to house the bombs-

idk, i'm not trying to argue, just trying to show that there is someting being done conerning terror in iraq

i can try to dig up a link for you if you honestly don't elive me
 
Originally posted by Slammed90Lude@Dec 9 2004, 11:01 AM
well, i saw footage of quite a few "terrorist traning camps" being raided and dismantled.

Buildings filled with bomb making materials, passports, and various containers to house the bombs-

idk, i'm not trying to argue, just trying to show that there is someting being done conerning terror in iraq

i can try to dig up a link for you if you honestly don't elive me
[post=429305]Quoted post[/post]​



Well I think everyone agrees about this, hell everyone was going bonkers on here about the 380 Tons of Explosives that was posted about on here...

Yet it seems as if a lot are quick to forget about it.

You're right, there is a cause for alarm even if they weren't nukes they were still large bombs that Sadaam shouldn't have.
 
Redneck...its become pointless with you.



No, I don't think that if American oil companies gained control over the oil reserves that the oil prices would stay the same...BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T.


The government would regulate it if they were price gouging like OPEC. The only reason why the government can't regulate OPEC is because its a foreign company, if the government taxes the hell out of OPEC they're just going to respond by cutting our oil off. When the large majority of your oil comes from OPEC and then you run the risk of being cut off...you don't go and piss them off :).



THINK don't just fucking assume. You assume the worst from what I've seen here and you assume wrong a good amount of the time.


Aren't you in business? You should know this kind of shit about federal regulations
 
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