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buying used cams?

Discussion in 'Engine Building' started by seanjuan, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. seanjuan

    seanjuan Senior Member

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    I want to upgrade the cams in my b16

    I want to retain stock idle because it's a daily driver and I don't want to spend half a day on a dyno tuning them.
    I'm considering the following three cams based on cost, Milan's cam post

    -ITR

    -CTR

    -Skunk2 stage 1

    on ebay I have found itr or ctr's for around $400 "brand new"
    I'm thinking this might be a very cost effective route to go
    unless I can find a set of used cams for a comperable price

    what should I look out for if I buy used cams/cam gears (adjustable)

    is there going to be a any noticable difference between ctr and itr cams?

    what is the reason [Milan?] for recomending the use of skunk2 cam gears with the skunk2 cams? is it so they can be adjusted?

    thanks
     
  2. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    [​IMG]
    thats the CTR cam, you can id it by the 2 rings, the ITR has 1 i belive. i got this from http://ff-squad.com/VtecCams.htm and for some reason the rest of pics arent loading. just look to make sure there is no excessive wear when buying used cams. i've used the CTR and skunk2 stage1, i liked the stage1's better, but the CTR's are still a great choice.
     
  3. seanjuan

    seanjuan Senior Member

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    so as long as I can see a pic I should be able to tell visually if the cams are in decent shape?

    is it worth an extra couple hundred for the skunk2's over the ctr's?

    thanks
     
  4. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    na, if you're keeping stock valvetrain i'd just get the CTR's. ya, make sure he takes many detailed pics for you, and that it is someone you can trust.
     
  5. seanjuan

    seanjuan Senior Member

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    but if I could find some used skunk2's for about the same price as ctr's (and they are in good shape) I'd be better off with those?

    I don't think it was required to upgrade your valve train for the stage1's

    when you ran the skunk2's did you just used your stock gears?
     
  6. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    you can use stock valve train with the stage 1's if you keep your stock rev limit, they do want to make power past stock rev, so you'll feel that car wants to keep pulling. i used skunk2 cam gears with my ctrs and stage1's, for the ctr's intake was adv. 3 deg and exh was at 0 deg, so they weren't too much use on the ctr's, but on the stage1's we had to tune both cams a little more.
     
  7. seanjuan

    seanjuan Senior Member

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    what were the stage1's like before tuning?
    did you do the tuning yourself or did you head over to your local dyno?

    i appreciate the responses man
    very helpful
     
  8. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    here is my dyno sheet before and after tuning with skunk2 stage1's
    [​IMG]
    here is my dyno sheet with the CTR's (also minus 64mm TB, skunk2 intake mani, aem fpr that were on when i tuned the skunk2's)
    [​IMG]
     
  9. JDMilan

    JDMilan Senior Member

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    look also for scares on the lobes themselves just in case. I would upgrade the valve train, change the headgasket and all necessary components now while your actually doing work to your ride. Just make sure to tune out you cams, and get a set of decent cam gears.


    Milan
     
  10. seanjuan

    seanjuan Senior Member

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    thanks for the dyno charts

    how much did it cost to have the tuning done?
    how long did it take?

    Milan,
    are AEM gears decent? or should I get a set of skunk2's?

    how much harder is it to change the springs as well? probably just go with itr or ctr springs?


    thanks again guys
     
  11. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    no problem, dyno tune was $150 i think and took about an hour, just cam timing, ignition timing, vafc fuel and vtec xover, and fuel pressure... thats all they do (if you have those items). i'd get the skunk2 over aem, i've heard of aem's slipping in the past and i just felt more comfortable using a gear with more bolts to hold it in place. changing the springs is pretty involved, just swapping the cams is easy. i would suggest getting some port flow inner springs and Ti retainers if you're going to go that route. however, if you keep your stock rev limit, you do not "need" to change your springs/retainers.
     
  12. seanjuan

    seanjuan Senior Member

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    yeah, if I did the cams/cam gears I would probably just leave them untuned for a while until I had some of that other stuff so that everything could be tuned at the same time

    are portflow springs going to be alot better than a set of used ITR springs?

    I might be able to buy a set of itr springs and retainers along with skunk2 stage 1 cams and AEM cam gears (not sure on price yet, we are working on that)

    I am thinking if I do get that deal I would sell off the AEM's and get some skunk2s
    I like the idea of more bolts too
     
  13. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    are you planning on doing an ecu upgrade? because with ITR valve train and the skunk2 stage1's you can only really rev to 8400 safely. this is the same valve train i had, i did take it up to 9K a few times, but that is dangerous territory with those aluminum retainers.
     
  14. seanjuan

    seanjuan Senior Member

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    as of right now I'm not planning on upgading the ECU... no money to do it.

    I'd like to just stick with cams for the time being, I think I could handle doing a cam swap myself but I'm not really at the point where I want to start doing the valvetrain if I don't have to.
    maybe it would be best to just stay with the stock valvetrain (sir2 by the way) and put in the stage1's and gears, stick with the stock rev limit for the time being

    then down the road when I know better what I want to do (FI or NA) I'll do the valvetrain at the same time as a PnP job or something... I don't know :blink:

    so many F'n things to think about, huh
     
  15. gocivicls

    gocivicls Senior Member

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    Way up at the top of the post you said somthing about, you don't want a loopy idle, Well I've seen some cars w/ pretty aggresive cams and it is not a huge diff. For the power diff between Stage 1 and 2 cams I would deal with it.

    Hope it helps you decide!!!!!
     
  16. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    :thumbsup:
    sounds good, just doing the cam swap is easy, good luck to you.
    -mike
     
  17. seanjuan

    seanjuan Senior Member

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    It would be nice to go stage 2 right away because it would probably save me some money in the long run. but the up front cost of getting the cams tuned right away to help "tame" them a little will be more than I can afford.

    is it just a timing adjustment to get it close to stock idle?

    I'm sort of one of those people who usually figures if I'm going to do it I should do it all the way. In this case though I don't have that much money since I just did the swap a month ago

    I suppose if I did stage 1s right now I could go stage 2 with an upgraded valve train next summer....

    we'll see I guess

    maybe I should get my suspension taken care of first
     
  18. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    well, with the stage2's the primary lobe is basically stock. so, you will still have a good idle, but the vtec is pretty aggressive, which is where you need the upgraded valve train.
     
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