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C-Pillar bars

Discussion in 'Wheels / Suspension / Tires / Brakes' started by jamesA, Jun 15, 2007.

  1. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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    Anyone have one? Down in Texas the Twig guy (signed up here) was talking about them and from the sounds of how he asked he thought it was a good investment.

    Found one for roughly 50 shipped, even though I think it's one of those adjustable ones.

    This is one of the problems I do have with it though;


    Thoughts?
     
  2. phunky.buddha

    phunky.buddha Admin with a big stick Admin VIP

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    Leave it out.
     
  3. phyregod

    phyregod !!YTINASNI

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    If you put a bar in to stiffen a car, and it has two points at which the bar can flex, have you done any good?
     
  4. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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    Well look for yourself. It's just a pivot to the mounting points. That's really the only thing keeping me from getting it, but a lot of them look like they're built the same way.

    Honda 96-00 Civic (EK) C-Pillar Bar
     
  5. vtecsir1

    vtecsir1 Senior Member

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    waste of money imo i have never seen a roll cage welded in that spot?
     
  6. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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    I don't know. Haven't been around too many gutted and caged Civic coupes.
     
  7. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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    they add bracing to an unstressed part of the car that doesnt need bracing
    basically all they do is add weight and make your car look like it handles better

    pointless bar... dont waste your money
     
  8. eg6sir

    eg6sir Supa Mod Moderator VIP

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    but what about on hatches..
     
  9. phyregod

    phyregod !!YTINASNI

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    I'd leave that one alone, unless its that X bar that goes from the c pillar to the rear struts. There was a post with an ebay integra that had a pic of one earlier last week. That looked like a good, solid unit. But just a plain jane C pillar bar, I dont see it stiffening the car much at all.
     
  10. jamesA

    jamesA Well known pissed off telephone guy VIP

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    I don't want to argue, but don't sunroofs flex during cornering which is why a car with a sunroof or a convertible (for that matter) have extra bracing on the frame?

    I don't see how forces aren't extended through the entire car during any sort of cornering, but just the fact that people can't sit in the backseat was turning me away from the bar.
     
  11. phyregod

    phyregod !!YTINASNI

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    Sunroofs are braced to handle the weight of the sunroof.

    Convertibles are missing the entire roof structure, which of course would require extra bracing.

    The car does flex, and some flex is good. And it flexes up by those C pillars, but it is incredibly minimal, otherwise you'd have buckles in your roof. The roof is braced all the way across the back, and its only what, 8 inches from where the c pillar is?

    You'll get good flex reduction out of a rear strut bar. But the c pillar just isnt worth it. Especially when you have to sacrifice so much funcitonality. The floor of the car is where most of your flex happens.
     
  12. K2e2vin

    K2e2vin Senior Member

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    I don;t think the C-pillar area flexes as much as A and B, since there's not as much weight back there.
     
  13. eg6sir

    eg6sir Supa Mod Moderator VIP

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    since we're on the topic of bars.. i'll just ask here instead of start a whole other thread..

    how beneficial are b-pillar bars??
     
  14. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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    they're not

    lets look at this from a few angles
    first in a street car (which is what most of us are dealing with) :
    in a street car you are not putting enough stress and flex to the structure of the car to benefit from the added bracing that would be supplied if these bars actually worked in the first place, most of them don't.... next for all of these bars to work as advertised you would need to have ALL of them... at that point it would be cheaper (and look less ridiculous) to put a full cage in the car... now we get back yo where we started on this... you are driving a street car... you are not going to put the car under the cornering forces that would require all this extra bracing... not to mention chances are you are running on street tires... and guess what even the best street tires out there will not hold the cornering forces required to make all of these bars worth half a shit

    in a race car:
    in a race car you will see cornering forces that make the added bracing a requirement... you will also be running on an R comp tire that can hold the cornering force... so what bars should you run now... none of them... you should have a full roll cage built to whatever spec the rules for the class you are running in allows...

    pretty much all that any of these exotic bars do (and they do this VERY effectively)... is separate you from your money... and you are left there like the kid with the stock suspension 91 4 door accord who swears his car will out handle a lotus now because he has a front strut tower bar... its perceived handling.... just like the perceived horsepower ricers get when they add a fart cannon to their D15B7 and think they can go out and smoke mustangs and supras

    now this doesnt mean all of these bars are 100% useless
    after getting good suspension, be it shocks/struts and springs, slip on adjustable springs, or full blown adjustable coilovers... there is some good that can be achieved for a street car with some additional bracing
    the biggest difference will be achieved with sway bars... the rear bar being the most effective... the front sway bar is there to tame the rear and keep the car from being too "tail happy"...

    once that is done then a GOOD set of strut tower bars will make a small difference...

    for the front:
    as far as basic 2 point bars go the neuspeed connects at the best locations (at least on hondas with double wishbone suspension) they connect to the upper control arms.... then there are your more exotic models like the carbing and passwordjdm 3 point bars that connect both strut towers and the firewall... if the 3 point bars connected the upper control arms and the firewall they would be the shit... for cars with struts that dont have upper control arms, you want a bar that completely supports the entire top of the strut tower with the thickest and strongest material... then you want a bar that does not have hinges or pivot points at the mount locations... and make sure that the bar that connects between the strut towers is as stiff as possible... if the bar pivots or flexes, its not doing anything for you...

    for the rear:
    most of these will have very slight effect on the cars handling... although a hatchback will get a lot more from the bar than a coupe or sedan will... a car with fold down rear seats with a giant gaping hole between the rear seat and the trunk will get a little more than a car that has some bracing there from the factory... but the rear strut tower bars dont really have a HUGE effect on the car... and again the design of the bar comes into play

    beyond that i havent seen many bars out there for a street car that will make much of a difference... and as i said already your tires will be more of a limiting factor than whether or not you have abcdefghijk___ pillar bars
     
  15. TurboMirage

    TurboMirage YEEAAAHHH VIP

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    x2 :)

    if you can, WELD the joints on your bars.

    i'm still working on a C-bar, but that is because i want to mount my harness to it. the current setup kinda sucks, but works great.
     
  16. eg6sir

    eg6sir Supa Mod Moderator VIP

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    didnt really need that long explanation of it.. just a simple.. "No, they suck" would have worked.. :lol: ..
     
  17. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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    :)
    yeah i figured that much... but i figured id give a little more explanation for those who arent satisfied with the short answer
     
  18. eg6sir

    eg6sir Supa Mod Moderator VIP

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    :thumbsup: .. i now know something new.. thanks
     
  19. E_SolSi

    E_SolSi Member of the 20 nut club Moderator VIP

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    harnesses without a proper roll bar / cage is a whole different issue that comes down more to a risk vs benefit situation

    on one end the harness will keep you secure in the seat under hard cornering/braking etc... and let you focus more on controlling the car than trying to stay in your seat... it will also keep you securely in the seat in the event of a crash and limit the risk of bodily injury from being tossed around inside the car...

    but a harness will increase the risk of whiplash type neck injuries in the event of a crash without proper head restraint / neck protection devices (your body will remain secure in the seat but your head will be flopping around like a bobble head doll)... you are also at greater risk of SERIOUS neck injury in the event of a roll over wearing a harness in a car without a proper roll bar / cage... (ie: car rolls over... roof caves in... with regular 3 point seatbelt you are pushed out of the way of the collapsing roof... with race harness you are held in the seat unable to be pushed out of the way of the collapsing roof, your head/neck become the roll bar, you end up with a few crushed vertebrae and/or a fractured skull)

    to this, the question "well whats the chance of rolling the car" is often raised
    and my answer would have to be, "if you are cornering hard enough to require a harness to help hold you in the seat, the chances are definitely better than average"

    but like everything in life, the choice of course is yours, everything has its risks... roll the dice
     
  20. TurboMirage

    TurboMirage YEEAAAHHH VIP

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    yes yes and we have talked about this in person.

    if i'm in that kind of situation... survey says i'm going to die in the little tin can regardless of whether i'm in the harness, seat belt, or no belt at all.
     
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