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Catalytic Converter Brands

Discussion in 'General Tech and Maintenance' started by SneakyTouchYourPlace, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. SneakyTouchYourPlace

    SneakyTouchYourPlace New Member

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    Been failing smog for 2 years. In depth testing is showing no problems with the engine. Getting a lot of 2nd oppinions that the catalytic converters I'm buying are poor quality. So I'm wondering what in your oppinion is a good catalytic converter?

    Problem Ive been having is at the first 1700rpm 15mph test, it seems the cat never lights off, maybe after 3 minutes on a manual test. Starts off at 300HC 2000NOX and after a few minutes very slowly starts dropping. But if I imidiately test it at 2800rpm 25mph, it lights off almost immidiatly bringing HC down to 15, Nox down to 100ish. If I bring the speed back down to 15, it holds the same values. If I then let it idle for 5 minues and go 15mph again, it stays the same. If I let it idle for 10 minuets and retest, it gross pollutes again till it lights off at 25mph, or after waiting 3 minutes on the low speed. So basically when I take it to a test only, it fails every time because they have to do it 15mph first, 1700 rpm, and if it fails wait 10 minutes or so to retest.

    89 Civic, 93 civic motor swap SOHC ZC Vtec 1.6. Everything on it, everything, has been replaced with dealership parts. EGO, Disy, MAP IAC FITV SEAFOAM and CAT. Cat has been replaced bout 5/6 times with cheap brands costing between 70/100 a peice. Had it dynoed and found mixture perfect, puts out 148 hp at wheels, Only aftermarket part is DC sports exhaust manifold with sensor before the cat, sensor is from Honda new. No misfires, no mixture problems, not overheating, compression is 100% equal across all cylenders with 1% leakdown hot or cold. Timing currently set to 15 btdc. Results were same with factory exhaust manifold.

    Think I just need a better cat, whats a good brand
     
  2. SneakyTouchYourPlace

    SneakyTouchYourPlace New Member

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    Im assuming that the more expensive the better, but woudn't wana screw myself if thats not the case. I was considering Walker, Miller, or Magniflow. Anyone know if these are any good compared to the $80 cheapos
     
  3. t3t4delsol

    t3t4delsol New Member

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    questions. what state are you testing in? what ecu are you using? why is your timing retarded 15 deg? And no stock sohc makes 148hp at the wheels. Is you evap system hooked up?

    I have a cheap ebay high flow, I paid $30 shipped 3 years ago and I have never had a issue, Stainless steel is still as shiny as new
     
  4. SneakyTouchYourPlace

    SneakyTouchYourPlace New Member

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    California, p28 ecu, evap hooked up properly, and Ive tried 15 for the test, found a spec for this engine at 16+/- 2. Its a 93 sohc zc vtec 1.6l. Yea 148 might be a little inaccurate but the dynoshop said their results for those motors are usualy lower maybe she is special. Maybe thats why the peice of crap keeps failing. It runs so good tho, no hickups, no funky smells or hesitations, doesnt smell fat or lean, screams at the higher rpms, got it to run 9.78 for 1/8mile.

    Perhaps someone fiddled with it before I owned it, as far as I can tell it doesnt seem to have had the head off, or cam out. Didn't strike me as aftermarket when I was changing the belt out.

    The Miller cat seems a bit pricey, $400 for a mid exhaust regular cat. The Walker and Magniflow ones are a bit cheaper but I wonder if that means they will do less of a job. As far as I can tell, this motor that came from Japan most likely pollutes a lot more than what these cat companies expected when they designed these cats to meet the minimum requirements for a CRX motor.

    While performing a manual smog test, I can monitor the emmisions live and notice that at the first 15mph test, the cat will never light off in 2nd gear at 1700 rpm. Once it speeds up to 25mph at 2800 rpm, it lights off rather quickly and passes that test almost immidiatly. Unfortunatly theres no way here in CALI to manipulate the test, none of the techs are willing to speed it up prior to the test because its illegal, even tho if they did only for 5 seconds it would pass easily.

    Oh btw it has 220psi compression in all cylenders, does that indicate a high ratio? Cuz I have no idea how much to expect.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  5. t3t4delsol

    t3t4delsol New Member

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    yes, the 220 is high, my guess is its has high compression pistons and the head might be done, as far as tuning? what is being used? crome? afc?

    sounds like a tuning issue, the low cam and high cam maps arnt right. do you have a wideband? do you know what your a/f ratio is at?
     
  6. SneakyTouchYourPlace

    SneakyTouchYourPlace New Member

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    I dont know anything about the fuel maps. The ecm has been modified for manual as when I originally got it, it was setting auto solenoid codes. That involved removing one resistor to open and shorting another resistor.

    I dont know what wideband means, the dynoshop said the fuel mixture seems perfect up until 7k rpm it shifts to lean.

    As far as high and low cam maps that may be possible, as I can easily hear the vtec working but never feel it, suggesting to me that something may be unusual with the maps. The dynoshop had mentioned to me that the vtec is working but is performing unusual. They expected to see a jump in HP but saw a smooth line instead.

    So lets say I really do need to have the maps redone, I don't have the capability to do it myself, I know the dynoshop nearby does do it regularly but not so sure I trust them. If I took it to them, what exactly am I expecting or asking of them?

    Ive been a drivability tech for ford so understand a lot of the stuff well but not when it comes to Honda map tuning.
     
  7. eg6sir

    eg6sir Supa Mod Moderator VIP

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    magnaflow high flow cat


    oh, and you shouldnt feel vtec kick in .. or see a sudden increase of power.. it should be a smooth powerband, so thats a good thing
     
  8. SneakyTouchYourPlace

    SneakyTouchYourPlace New Member

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    BTW the nearby dyno shop doesn't have an emmission sniffer, so if I had it mapped I gota know what I should be mapping it to.

    So do you think that replacing my $80 cat with a $300 cat will help me pass? Instead of having the ecu remapped?
     
  9. SneakyTouchYourPlace

    SneakyTouchYourPlace New Member

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    Here are the test results per a normal testonly session.
    15mph:
    1700RPM
    14.0 Co2
    .3 o2
    196 Hc
    .58 Co
    2194 Nox

    25mph
    2823 RPM
    14.6 Co2
    0 o2
    106 Hc
    .22 Co
    578 Nox

    After running it at 25mph for about 2 minutes I do a retest and get these results
    15mph
    1723RPM
    14.73 Co2
    .3 o2
    67 Hc
    .07 Co
    0 Nox

    25mph
    2823 Rpm
    14.74 Co2
    .3 o2
    17 Hc
    .01 Co
    0 Nox
     
  10. SneakyTouchYourPlace

    SneakyTouchYourPlace New Member

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    A smog referee recommended I try wrapping my aftermarket exhaust manifold with some kinda fiberglass wrap to prevent exhaust cooling. What do you think about that?
     
  11. SneakyTouchYourPlace

    SneakyTouchYourPlace New Member

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    Well the results are in, I've wrapped my exhaust manifold with a product called DEI exhaust wrap and high temp silicon spray. It certainly isn't as pretty as it was but has made a drastic performance difference with smog, and has seemed to give a slight horsepower increase as well. Preventing exhaust gas cooling has allowed the catalyst to reach the appropriate temperature quicker and wouldn't be suprised if the EGO is more accurate.

    The results are
    15mph
    10 Hc
    103 Nox

    25mph
    5 Hc
    23 Nox

    California's executive order system has efficiently fucked me in the ass. It breaks my heart to emagine the damage they have caused other consumers, not only by the nonsense that is a CARB number, but the ammount of money spent by corporations to have their parts certified.

    I used to have a ceramic DC-sports manifold that they wouldn't allow for 2 reasons. Dispite the FACT that the part number was ALREADY certified with a carb number, that number wasn't stamped to the part. Also that Carb number was only good for an 88-91 1.6 liter and my actual engine is a 93 JDM 1.6. Even though the parts are almost 100% identical in shape, and the car PASSED with it on, no exception could be made by a referee. They required me to swap it out with part that had a 92-95 1.6l carb number. At the time DC-sports was moving and the parts were unavailable from them, was difficult to find another brand with a Carb number. Once It arrived at my house 4 months later, It looked like it were manufactured with a hammer and anvil. It also gave out so much heat that it caused my smog test to FAIL, even though the Carb number is supposed to certify that the part causes no change in emmisions output.

    I'd like to call forth an angry mob with pitch forks to go rabble in front of the govenator's house, either get rid of the useless money wasting system, or offer the certifications at no cost to the companies, or a much lower cost as 2-10k+ and the overall process is rediculous.
     
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