check this: open borders for Us/Mexico/Canada

[xj0hnx]

You can't go around asking people immigrant status because it is just "wrong" and would probably wind up in court, not because no one cares because of cheap labor. Wow, kids mow lawns, great, do they make electronics? Sew shoes and clothes? Assemble cars? etc...of course the shitty jobs here in America are also filled by legal Americans, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot more of them are not.

 

[arrowheadpb]

Originally posted by 92b16vx@Jul 19 2005, 03:21 PM
You can't go around asking people immigrant status because it is just "wrong" and would probably wind up in court, not because no one cares because of cheap labor. Wow, kids mow lawns, great, do they make electronics? Sew shoes and clothes? Assemble cars? etc...

[post=528609]Quoted post[/post]​

Clothing, electronics, etc. are virtually all outsourced, mainly to Asia. I was talking about the jobs illegals take within the borders of the U.S., which are primarily manual, unskilled labor.

I wasn't suggesting the cops go around asking everyone their immigration status. But as it stands, if a cop pulls over a truck with 15 Spanish-speaking males piled in the back, he is forbidden from asking their immigration status. Meanwhile--at least according to the Supreme Court--U.S. citizens are compelled to provide identification to an inquiring officer.

 

[civicious]

Originally posted by 90 accord@Jul 19 2005, 01:20 PM
the problem with mexican's is that they don't know what birth control is.

 

[SiLude]

LoL

i bet you just took that pic too

 

[Taco15]

even i find it amusing

 

[Drake]

I grew up in a farming town. The cheap labor everyone talks about is mainly farm work. The problem I have with this is that alot of the people that move up here and work on farms, Work for 3-5 months then move back to Mexico. They pay no taxes.

But guess what I worked right along side them. It isnt like alot of farmers wana hire mexicans to pull, sort, bag, stack bags of onions its just that all the white people in the area dont wana get there hands dirty.

Also about the comment about un controlled reproduction, there are a few families that i grew up near that did in fact have quit a few kids. But guess what there where more familes that had 2-3 kids just like any other white family. As a matter of fact, one of my very close friends his whole family came to the U.S. illigaly but got there citizenship. Not only did my buddy get his citizenship his ass joined the Core. A former alien is going to Iraq to serve for us, the american people. So broad sweeping steriotypes arnt gonna get any thing done.

My statments above do not mean that I am in favor of opening the borders because I think that is a horrible idea. In general Mexico dosnt have much to offer us in retern. Also like someone else already pointed out is imagine the increase we will experience in drug smuggling. Just a few of my real life experinces.

 

[erikespo]

Last time I was in mexico it had improved like 300% but that was in the tourist area around cancun. I even saw a few walmarts. but then again I saw the law enforcement with MP5s and bullet proof vests on every corner.

On a plus that do have Peugeots there!

 

[Guy]

Um, you guys do know that mexicans are catholic, right? They actually tend to be very conservative as far as their religion goes, so really its not about lack of ability to buy, or knowledge, but more along the lines that it is against their religion (if all christians didnt selectively follow the bible they would be doing the same thing).
But if youre gonna knock the Mexican catholics for their reproduction rates, why not go after the mormons as well. I live in an area that has both (though ive yet to see a mexican mormon) and can tell you that mexicans have nothing on the mormons as far as reproduction is concerned.

As to opening the borders and creating a North American Union, I think its a great idea (though not necessarially implemented by the stipulated means). I think it is high time that Americans stopped exploiting mexico for cheap labor. If the open the borders but we still maintain minimum wage standards (also keeping an eye out for wage discrimination at middle to higher levels of pay) then I do not see the introduction of new people into the workforce as being detremential as their incentive for cheap labor will be taken away. I think that America's economy would remain stable, and at the same time it would raise the standard of living for the people of mexico, in turn opening up entirely new consumer markets.
Security issues would be addressed in the same way as they are currently, and the necessity for increased border coverage would encourage the Union's defence spending further helping the economy.
The increase in crime argument is inane. With a more effective policing force and border partol along a more limited border line (the physical border between north america and centeral/south america is much smaller than the california/arizona/texas border) would, in fact, inhibit the drug trade (where south america is concerned.
Of course whether or not this plan will be good for us all or just good for america depends on how it is implemented. I can envision this working and everyone being the better for it, though i doubt that is feesable with the current political and racial climate.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by 92b16vx+Jul 19 2005, 03:06 PM-->

arrowheadpb

@Jul 19 2005, 08:56 PM
Three words: Cheap ass labor.

[post=528591]Quoted post[/post]​

Wrong, we can outsource for cheap ass labor. Thing is, most jobs that illegals take when they get here, are jobs most Americans don't even want. But I am still not buying the whole, "well illegals still pay a lot in taxes and most don't collect so it's good for the US" bullshit. Someone needs to show something opther than "estimated" figures.

[post=528597]Quoted post[/post]​

Illegals don't pay taxes and thats one of the biggest arguments against them. They can't pay taxes because they can't be on the books.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by arrowheadpb@Jul 19 2005, 03:15 PM

You can't outsource the jobs most illegals are doing. You can't send your front lawn to India or your dirty dishes to Indonesia. As for most Americans not wanting those jobs, I disagree. I've mowed lawns and washed dishes. A lot of people do that, especially when they're young. Maybe Americans kids are getting spoiled and think those jobs are too good for them now, I don't know, but I do know that those jobs get done in areas without large illegal immigrant populations. Somehow roofs get put up, lawns get mowed, dishes get washed etc. in places like Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, etc. I guess I'd just rather see someone express more than an opinion about Americans not wanting the jobs illegals take.

I'm going to qualify this further. The trend as of late in my area, thats the tri-state area (New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania) which other than California has the largest market in North America, is to no longer have "kids" as employees. The trends been to go to 18 year olds and older, even in chain restaurants. Legally they're less of a liability and they also tend to be more dedicated to the job because they require money to survive, when you're 16 years old you can blow off a job because mommy and daddy will fund your needs.
Going along with this trend, if it spreads across the nation, then I predict many less than 18's occupying any job available to them if their parents require them to be self-sufficent. What kind of jobs are going to be available to them? The piss poor ones that no one else wants. Thats how it is already for kids, but I foresee this fact becoming emphasized by the current trend.

My .02 cents.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by Guy@Jul 19 2005, 10:11 PM
Um, you guys do know that mexicans are catholic, right? They actually tend to be very conservative as far as their religion goes, so really its not about lack of ability to buy, or knowledge, but more along the lines that it is against their religion (if all christians didnt selectively follow the bible they would be doing the same thing).
But if youre gonna knock the Mexican catholics for their reproduction rates, why not go after the mormons as well. I live in an area that has both (though ive yet to see a mexican mormon) and can tell you that mexicans have nothing on the mormons as far as reproduction is concerned.

Right, religiously thats their duty to reproduce. Contraceptives are a sin. It makes sense why the rates are the way they are, even if we as Americans don't feel that those are responsible decisions.

 

[Guy]

I'm not so sure that its contraceptives are the sin so much as it is the "spilling the seed upon the earth" thats the sin.
And doesnt the bible tell all christians to "be fruitful and multiply"?

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by Guy@Jul 19 2005, 11:37 PM
I'm not so sure that its contraceptives are the sin so much as it is the "spilling the seed upon the earth" thats the sin.
And doesnt the bible tell all christians to "be fruitful and multiply"?

[post=528848]Quoted post[/post]​

Catholics and mormans moreso than other christian groups.


"Spilling the seed upon the earth" is the sin, since in the biblical story he withdrew and his seed spilled onto the ground, but its interpreted by catholics as being a sin to use a contraceptive and prevent the miracle of God from taking its natural course. There's other biblical references to ideas on contraceptives.

 

[BigJ]

Only in conservative areas or more say devout areas that follow the pope's word as the only for roman catholicism. I have attended 5 different catholic churches in the past 12 years, and all but one were for contraceptives although the pope was against them.

But then again I live in a liberal area. (Western Washington).


If you don't know, this is a very big political thing in the Catholic church, and about how contraceptives need to be used so the church still holds ground in the South American Countries it greatly reigns over.


<-------------Catholic

 

[Taco15]

one thing is to reproduce,no problem there. My thing is when they reproduce again and again when they cant even keep the 1rst child clean,or cant buy him clothes, or cant even feed him! those bible words for back then. The world is really getting out of control with ALOT of nonesense. SOME SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BREED!

micheal Jackson being one of them