Chrysler Not Responsible for Vehicles Produced Up to this Point

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I think you miss the point - Kia already builds the car that you folks are asking for in terms of a "stripped down" model.

You can get into a Kia for what $8,000?

The cheapest car you can purchase in India is a "micro" and runs about $3,000. For $8,000 in America you get a reliable company, an excellent warranty, and a sub-compact rather than a micro.

I think what people here are asking for is a stripped down performance vehicle, rather than a stripped down commuter car. Both have been done before and the commuter car far out shines the performance car. Kia Spectra vs Dodge Neon SRT-4.
 
GM, Ford, And Dodge build stripped down cars. Go buy a company truck. They don't have shit besides 4x4, a cd player, and vinyl bench seats. Why? Because have some.




And to the above. Nielson brothers are as accurate as you can get in sampling. They have a phenomenal model for statistics. Their sample size is humongous to draw a popular conclusion with a very good confidence interval.

...and yes to this on both accounts.

I almost went to work for Nielson research studies. They have an excellent management program and are world renowned for their studies.
 
The problem is low a lot income families will sacrifice everything else just to roll in a phat tight ride! I have seen it with my own eyes, food stamps for bread and cheese load up in the Yukon with chrome 20's.
 
I think you miss the point - Kia already builds the car that you folks are asking for in terms of a "stripped down" model.

You can get into a Kia for what $8,000?

Yeah but not everyone wants a Kia(mainly due to reputation), like no one really wants a Geo Metro. I've honestly seen some nice ones, but haven't seen any dealerships around here. Maybe in a couple of years they'll pick up where the Civics, Escort, etc. left off.

Those that don't get a Kia, usually end up with 96-00 Civics or something similar. Kias simply aren't popular, but the economy will probably change that.

The point here is giving the consumer options. Most cars have power everything standard, but you have to pay for it. There's many that like the looks of the car and the performance, and can do away with many of the options but will still have to pay for them(IMO, A/C should be the only thing standard). Remember, first thing the consumer sees is asthetics. Hell, sell the Acura TL with a plain interior, no power, etc. and I'm sure people will buy it. Just make sure it has A/C....You'll see me in line for one. :D
 
The problem is low a lot income families will sacrifice everything else just to roll in a phat tight ride! I have seen it with my own eyes, food stamps for bread and cheese load up in the Yukon with chrome 20's.

I've seen that, but there's just as many or more that are actually smart with their money. At Con Agra, many of the people who work there are low-income(I'd say under $30,000 year, only a handful there getting more which is working 12/7) and I've only seen maybe 2 or 3 cars with rims, all older cars though(like a 97 Lexus) out of ~200. I'd say the average cost of the cars in the lot is ~$4k
 
The problem is low a lot income families will sacrifice everything else just to roll in a phat tight ride! I have seen it with my own eyes, food stamps for bread and cheese load up in the Yukon with chrome 20's.

Come to a more urban area, like bad parts of New Jersey.

You'll be amazed.

I come from a middle class neighborhood. I went to school a few miles from the state capital. Every car, regardless of whether it was a beat to ish Oldsmobile or a new Lexus, was rimmed up on dubs.
 
Yeah but not everyone wants a Kia(mainly due to reputation), like no one really wants a Geo Metro. I've honestly seen some nice ones, but haven't seen any dealerships around here. Maybe in a couple of years they'll pick up where the Civics, Escort, etc. left off.

Those that don't get a Kia, usually end up with 96-00 Civics or something similar. Kias simply aren't popular, but the economy will probably change that.

The point here is giving the consumer options. Most cars have power everything standard, but you have to pay for it. There's many that like the looks of the car and the performance, and can do away with many of the options but will still have to pay for them(IMO, A/C should be the only thing standard). Remember, first thing the consumer sees is asthetics. Hell, sell the Acura TL with a plain interior, no power, etc. and I'm sure people will buy it. Just make sure it has A/C....You'll see me in line for one. :D

You're also 21. You don't have the mentality of the majority of the market, nor do you have the buying power.

Most people have families and other concerns that override the "superhot stunna looks" and fall into the "needs to be practical" family.

Honda/Toyota had the same start that Hyundai/Kia had. If anyone has looked at the Genesis sedan lately, they know that Hyundai will now be a major player. Buyer demand is driving these stripped down cars to have modern day amenities and car manufacturers are responding with these relatively inexpensive luxury vehicles. Really, the majority of the market is getting exactly what they want, while our small segment is not being satisfied.

I'd like the M3 about half the price, so when I run up the miles, I don't blow my brains out for an awful investment.

You guys want M3 looks/performance, in a stripped down car, at a Kia price - that simply won't happen.
 
When I buy my next luxury town car, it will have swarovski crystals in the clock bezel. And a robot hand that jacks me off while I drive. This is what I demand of my vehicle. It's what I deserve. I wouldn't dream of settling for less.
 
You're also 21. You don't have the mentality of the majority of the market, nor do you have the buying power.

Most people have families and other concerns that override the "superhot stunna looks" and fall into the "needs to be practical" family.

You're 23, big difference? No, I don't have the mentality of the majority, but I actually talk to people. I've always worked with people that are at least 10 years older than me(35-60yr olds with families) minus the time I worked at a fast food restaurant when i was 16-17. I always talk to them about their cars and what you here a lot is "I don't need all of that". I mean, if someone does not want something, they don't want to pay for it. And as far as my mentality, you think I want a stripped down compact? Nope, what I want is a Cadillac CTS with cloth seats. Something smooth, quiet, comfortable, and decent acceleration. But guess what, I can't afford it nor would I drive it everywhere(gas). Also, people <21 yrs old lack buying power? Build something they can buy or their parents will buy! Most people in that age range, especially in high school, want cars for more freedom.

That is not my argument. What gets the consumer's initial attention is looks. Say you have a stripped down Geo Metro, and then you have a CRX and NX2000 with similar amenities, and assume they all have similar performance(ignoring aftermarket)....which would you pick? Why do small compacts even exists? A stripped-down TL will stock cost a lot, but still much less than a regular TL(which is pretty damn sweet).

If you want to talk about family cars, what about those automatic sliding rear doors in vans? Those things are slow and not everyone needs them. Should it be standard? What about a GPS system? Keyless entry/starting? Stuff like that stopped my mom from buying a Versa. Some of the things she wanted was in a higher-priced package, but include lots of things she did not want. Main goal of the salesmen is to put you in a car and for you to drive that car away; but that's not going to happen if the consumer believes they're overpaying for what they want. Like for me, my biggest peeve is sunroofs. I hate them, no use for them, so I don't want to pay for them.

Also, performance does not mean fast or best handling thing out there; it means good brakes, decent power output, etc. A M3 is a high-end car...it's not all luxury; it's designed to accelerate, brake, and out handle most cars on the road....and even that, there's already stripped down versions(GTR, CSL).

These small luxuries may not seem that expensive, but they sure do drive the cost up. Remember when the "Civic base model" existed? People bought that, many people....but why would they do that if there was an EX available? No one really caters to the "lower market" anymore. You can still get rich by selling cheaper cars in high volume.
 
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For TV, do they still use Nielsen boxes to track things, or is it done differently nowadays? If the former, has anyone ever known anyone who has a box? I've never even heard of anyone actually having one; friend of a friend, etc.
 
What i don't get is how does taking gov bail out money have anything to do with the quality of the car... if you compare base line accord to base line chevy malibu and ford fusion you will find on edmunds the owners find malibu and fusion to be better cars then accord owners...and chevy has the best warranty of the three...
 
GM/Gov. negotiation table: "Oh crap, if we actually have to make good cars as a condition of the loan, then we can't be responsible for the purposely crappy ones we made in the past to save money! Deal?"
 
What i don't get is how does taking gov bail out money have anything to do with the quality of the car... if you compare base line accord to base line chevy malibu and ford fusion you will find on edmunds the owners find malibu and fusion to be better cars then accord owners...and chevy has the best warranty of the three...


for me it has nothing to do with the quality... its all about taking the government handout that we were forced to pay... for me, as soon as they took the handout money, i said "Fuck them!" as an entire brand

i pretty much refuse to do business with bailed out companies for the time being
like i said it has nothing to do with quality of product or service...

its the principle of the thing....
there's principalities in this!
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