Chrystler, trademark of GM?

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mushroom-cloud_gm_chrysler_450.jpg
 
I think it's time for the American automobile to take a bow and exit quietly
 
I could be a very good move for GM: GM buys out Chystler, less competition, and makes the UAW even smaller. IMO the UAW is what is really holding the American companies back, and why they cannot afford to operate any plants in the US. How can they afford new product design when an assembly line worker makes $27 an hour?

Their going to need a loan, this might be tough right now, I highly doubt it will happen.
 
cheese9988 said:
I could be a very good move for GM: GM buys out Chystler, less competition, and makes the UAW even smaller. IMO the UAW is what is really holding the American companies back, and why they cannot afford to operate any plants in the US. How can they afford new product design when an assembly line worker makes $27 an hour?

Their going to need a loan, this might be tough right now, I highly doubt it will happen.
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The UAW is fucking retarded. Although, it has become much less of a problem. A lot of U.S. automotive work is now subcontracted globally to reap the benefits of lower wages, just as a lot of foreign auto manufacturing is done in the U.S. for massive tax benefits and greatly reduced logistic costs.

What it really comes down to is years of mismanagement. When the Japanese began making quality cars American auto management stated that they did not view the Japanese auto industry as a competitive threat. Thirty-something years later they are still playing catch up and failing miserably. It was arrogance. They thought the 50's and 60's would last forever.
 
I think it's time for the US auto industry to retool itself and bring back the passion of the 20s.

Makers like aeromobile, Hudson, Tucker. The kind of cars we could all design, a market where smaller firms could introduce a product.

We won't have that, and it's the fault of the consumers - Who want warantees and shit that make them feel that they will "never have any troubles with it again". Our demand of universal parts, quick and cheap repairs and commonality has killed our driving souls.

That's why Uncle Cel says "Screw new. The auto industry died in 1989"
 
UNDR8D said:
The UAW is fucking retarded. Although, it has become much less of a problem. A lot of U.S. automotive work is now subcontracted globally to reap the benefits of lower wages, just as a lot of foreign auto manufacturing is done in the U.S. for massive tax benefits and greatly reduced logistic costs.

What it really comes down to is years of mismanagement. When the Japanese began making quality cars American auto management stated that they did not view the Japanese auto industry as a competitive threat. Thirty-something years later they are still playing catch up and failing miserably. It was arrogance. They thought the 50's and 60's would last forever.
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I consider it greed. The unions took what was once an organization to increase safety and gain competitive wages, to a bunch of clowns who think you need a cost of living increase on a salary double the national average. There is no need for a union of that scale in todays society. That union has had America by the balls since they began.

The American car companies have changed, within the past few years they have put their cars back on the best quality charts. The UAW are the arrogant ones who have not changed. The Union still strikes over pay and benefits.

If the union really wanted job security, and give back the money GM needs, they take a pay cut to 10% above that national average. But who am I to say the UAW has had enough?
 
cheese9988 said:
The American car companies have changed, within the past few years they have put their cars back on the best quality charts. The UAW are the arrogant ones who have not changed. The Union still strikes over pay and benefits.
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Mutha fuckin' :werd:

The American auto companies have actually upped their quality tremendously and produced some fantastic and competitive offerings in recent years. The unions however, are still pushing for maximum gravy train despite the fact that the need for compromise in order to keep these companies afloat is overwhelmingly evident...
 
Try hunting down your first girlfriend and convincing her that you have changed in the 10 years since you broke up. It doesn't matter how much you have changed for the better. Your reputation has been ruined by your own idiotic actions.
 
True in some respects. Women have far more problems. :p

The only car company that burned me was Nissan, so I can see where your going. They would have to make a tremendous amount of changes for me to go back buying their cars. But I've been burned by retailers and the like, I'll go back if I feel they are better managed.
 
It's not so much the product as it is the point of sale issues with domestic manufactuers. For the longest time, GM, Ford and Chrysler had the belief that you should just buy their cars...because...you...SHOULD. Even through the traumatic 80's, the big three refused to address huge consumer concerns, because they think they didn't need to. After getting their asses kicked by Japan in the 90's, they seemed to bounce back, but for many mega-mart domestic dealerships, the impersonal treatment steered a lot of people away.

German cars have horrible reliability - I see it first hand, but the point of sale and after-sale service is top-notch, and it keeps people comming back. Some guys have asked a few Audi owners why they don't defect and buy Lexuses and Infinitis - they most will say that even those dealerships don't offer the kind of service high-line German dealers present.

The car that is made on the assembly line isn't the end of the consumer process.
 
Will be a sad day. Chrysler has been pushing the envelope pretty well these last few years. They pioneered the retro car craze that US market is so crazy about right now. Many of their concepts become a reality, more so than any other manufacturer. They aren't afraid to take chances. GM are at the other end of the spectrum. They are many years behind current trends and they don't push anything. Not to mention their current build quality completely sucks. Plastic snap-tight cars. Even the higher end stuff they churn out suffers in material/build quality.
 
The U.S. isn't crazy about the retro car trend. Automotive marketing is crazy about making people think that everyone is crazy about the retro car trend. It is a fabricated market segment with fabricated demand. The ratio of hype and marketing efforts to actual sales is not so favorable. Seriously, there are a handful of PT Cruisers and a restyled Mustang which turned out to be a turd. Otherwise...?
 
Retro car experiments here in the US have been piss-poor by most standards, short of the forthcoming Camaro rebirth.

The Challenger -
-Too big
-Horrible interior (as with any Chrysler vehicle)
-Too pricey (original pony-cars were very affordable, designed to be cheaper than the hi-po big cube musclecars of the day.)

Mustang
-Horrible interior build quality
-Live rear axle???? WTF??
-option stacking killed this one (no "base" interior trim with V8, and 5spd)

PT Cruiser
-Missed age target by 20 years
-Retirement home hit
-Really bad interior ergonomics

Chevy HHR
-Um...the PT Cruiser failed...and you do this?
-Typical GM interior with no fit and finish, repeat of PT's mistakes (even down to the clock and window switches)
-Based off the failed and dead Cavalier platform

As for Chrysler "pushing the envelope", they hardly pushed anything - other than buyers out of the showrooms. Build quality never really recovered from the 80's, and transmission problems plagued the company, along with far too many platforms. A failing company doesn't need 609798686 platformed SUV clones. Their designs never really struck a cord with anyones feelings either, and barring the Viper (which is a brutally fast, yet shoddily built pile of crap) - nothing they make has any sort of brand image or soul.

GM is turning things around, and while they still need to trim some fat off the lineup - they will definately come out ontop of the big three when the smoke clears. Their new Sigma platform (Enclave,Aspen,Outlook,etc) is a huge jump from crappy rental-car-ready mid-size crossovers. The new Torrent effectively makes the old Trailblazer useless, and a fully optioned GMC Acadia would make any Q7/X5/RX owner blush.
 
Werd. You forgot to mention that Ford is still plunking along using the same platforms that were designed 30 years ago. Hell, the Crown Vic isn't getting a new chassis til like 2012 or something. The Ranger and F series are still solid axle bricks. They are still slipping slowly into the mire of an aging lineup, fleet sales and a low low share price...
 
Its funny having an alter ego. People fight you on stuff that they would generally just take your word for.

Chrysler changed the truck game completely and permanently with the "new" Ram of 1994. The viper continues to challenge the corvette for domestic dominance. Like it or not, the PT cruiser was a huge huge huge hit. There were year+ waiting lists of people paying well over retail if you will recall. The crossfire was more or less a flop, but if you look at it, the design is solid and the concept was very bold. The 300 of recent years, or "poor boy's bently" was a 100% design change in one year It has some sex appeal to it. The Magnum is very muscular looking and is a maverick in today's auto market. Noone makes full sized station wagons anymore. The new challengers and chargers are incredibly sexy for what they are. I love the retro look in those, and they will certainly become collector cars in the years to come.

No other auto maker can make such claims to pushing the design envelope as chrysler can.

I do not like chryslers. They are unreliable shit. But undeniably they are kicking ass and taking names as far as new design concepts go.
 
UNDR8D said:
Try hunting down your first girlfriend and convincing her that you have changed in the 10 years since you broke up. It doesn't matter how much you have changed for the better. Your reputation has been ruined by your own idiotic actions.
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This is very true. While I can recognize the improvements that the US automakers have made, I still have no desire to own one of their cars. Honda and Toyota haven't failed me yet, so at this point I see no reason to make the switch back to American...
 
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