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Coffee shop convo: Origins of morals

Discussion in 'Members' Lounge' started by invisibledemon, Apr 15, 2015.

  1. invisibledemon

    invisibledemon Bored Moderator VIP

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    What are your views on where morals come from?

    On going conversation at my local coffee shop. Are morals an innate or man-made? Do you think that morals are given to us by a higher power? If so, do you have to be a religious person to be a moral person?
    Or, are do we as humans define our morals?

    Being one of the few non-religious people that goes there regularly, naturally I argue for man-made. It came up when in another conversation I let it be known that I don't believe in God or the devil, heaven or hell, etc. One guy asked what keeps me from doing wrong. I told him that you dont have to be religious to have morals, he disagreed. Thus the conversation started.
    I see morals as a culture based, man-made, collective agreement. They may not be a written code, and frequently they are (laws, rules), but regardless, not handed to us by God. A lot of these morals may be found in religion, but lets face it, those books were written by man.
    If they were in fact innate or handed down by god, then would not every culture contain the same morals with no differences? and wouldnt morals have stayed completely unchanged since whatever belief you subscribe to was started? some of them argue that they have, but anybody that can look through history can see that there is a constant shift in what is moral and what is not. Imagine a woman in the 1700's dressed as women do now, would be considered indecent and immoral behavior.
    some of the guys have decided to make their point by trying to put this in with the creation/evolution argument and asking if its not from god, then when and how did they come about? then since you cant answer that question definitively and cannot provide evidence of all species originating from one organism (not just humans from primates but all the way to the core beginning) that obviously they are from god.

    any way, thats the jist of it, im sure im forgetting a lot that I can add later, but I figured it would be an interesting one to put here and see what else is brought up.
     
  2. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    I had an ex tell me one time that she couldn't marry me because I wasn't religious. She said, "if you aren't religious, what to get you place your vows on? You can't vow to the ceremony without god".

    My answer was, "I vow to not be a fucking douche because I love you and care about you, not because god says it's wrong to be a douche. God didn't tell me to love you, god didn't tell me to fuck you this morning, god didn't tell me to not cheat on you. So he's not going to stop me from doing anything either.".

    My morals are 90% internal and 10% social norms. No book written hundreds of years ago to give poor people an excuse to live is going to dictate why I do things in my life.
     
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  3. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    What are morals?

















    Seriously though, morals are a combination of doing what society thinks is right and what you think is better than societies guidelines.

    take laws out of the picture....
    would you go around like 'The Purge' and kill everyone?
    probably not if you were raised properly.

    so there we go... 95% of morals come from your upbringing.
     
  4. invisibledemon

    invisibledemon Bored Moderator VIP

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    Morals being from an upbringing could be brought back to religious sources if you were raised in a "religious" household. Personally I think there would be much more murder and random acts of violence, theft, etc. If it weren't for the laws that keep those morals in good standing with overall civilization.
     
  5. BigJ

    BigJ I'm just about that action Boss. VIP

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    Societal Norms are where the majority of basic morals come from. Do not steal. Do not cheat. Do not hurt. These span almost all religions outside of the extreme.
     
  6. corvetteguy78

    corvetteguy78 Well-Known Member VIP

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    I think everything stems from money no matter how you look at it. The more money your parents had, the more morals you probably had as a kid growing up. If you were shit poor, you probably had very few morals.
     
  7. TurboMirage

    TurboMirage YEEAAAHHH VIP

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    i know plenty of rich fuckers who don't give a shit about anyone else, wouldnt bother holding the door open for anyone, etc etc. and plenty of poorer folks who do these things. its not about money. if you were raised by shitbags, you're going to be a shitbag.
     
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  8. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    Like B said, if there were no laws, it wouldn't exactly be like "the purge". More people might steal shit, but capitalism would take over and it would be protected. If you are going to murder and rapes, laws don't apply to you.

    The only thing I can think of that the law ever stopped me from doing was punching one of my exes. After she threw a knife at me and then a Mike Tyson upper cut, I was ready to lay her out. The thought of 12 months in jail stopped that from happening.
     
  9. BigJ

    BigJ I'm just about that action Boss. VIP

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    Kind of a poor outlook if you ask me. I was poor. Most of my friends were poor. I was a saint and so was everyone I know. My whole family is pretty dirt poor. We have one bad apple and that's my brother. He committed his crimes when he got money and got addicted to rich boy drugs. When everything eroded around him basically all morals were out the window.

    I agree with B though actually on this. A lot has to do with the investment in the kids and surrounding them with positive ifluences. The upbringing. I had shitbag friends and coworkers when I worked construction. They hang with other shit bag friends and are general shit bags. Morals for them are gray. They'll step over the line if it'll benefit them. I also know people though that grew up n the worst situations ever, no furniture, no holidays, and they don't have a bad bone in their body. My mom brought a lot of these positive people with nothing into our homes for holidays and such and none of it had any manner with how bad they got beat at home by their dad, or how little they had at home.
     
  10. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    I think the society for morals for "poor people" is a lower bar than it is for most people. You are dirt poor living in projects? The social norm is to sell crack, drop out of school and commit petty crimes. It's not illegal in their minds, it's standard. Some rich people think it's totally normal to be do coke, be swingers and have multiple partners.

    Your lifestyle sets the standards and "moral code" that you live by. However, if you want to get out of the ghetto, for example, you have to break your social norms. I wanted to get out of the small town I grew up in, so I did something out of the ordinary.
     
  11. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    started male modelling?
     
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  12. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    uh, that was the downside. lol I'm referring to when i left for the Air Force.
     
  13. BigJ

    BigJ I'm just about that action Boss. VIP

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    NO ONE FORGETS @get_nick
     
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  14. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    How is that out of the ordinary? Most guys who want out join the service
     
  15. get_nick

    get_nick These snozzberries taste like snozzberries... VIP

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    Less than 1 percent of this country is in the military. Half go in to blow shit up. So at less than .5% I think my decision was out of the ordinary. i don't think THAT many people pick the military.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
  16. SlushboxTeggy

    SlushboxTeggy It's only stupid if it doesn't work VIP

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    I think religion and morals were originally created by the weak, but smart to keep the dumb, but strong from killing, fucking, and eating them. It created a sense of order in a very Darwinian world.

    That said, I believe the world has outgrown religion. It causes more death and destruction than anything else. In what world besides a religious one could anyone argue that beheading another human being is a righteous act?

    My morals are generally based off of the possible repercussions of my actions, good or bad. I don't let a book make my decisions for me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
  17. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    Religion exists for the sole purpose that science couldn't answer "Why are we here?"
     
  18. B16

    B16 Super Moderator VIP

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    I don't agree with this. Religion exists to teach people how to not be assholes to each other (in its original intent) and put a pathway for humanity to prosper. It was put in a framework of "why?" for unexplained situations because now you have peoples attention and can answer their question with a hidden agenda behind it.

    Of course like all things it comes down to those who interpret and execute; which has not always gone to original plan.. lol
     
  19. Briansol

    Briansol Admins Admin VIP

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    That's what it BECAME. But it started out as an answer to things that couldn't be answered. "Thunder" oh, it's god bowling....
     
  20. tab

    tab Super Moderator

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    I am not Atheist, or bible thumping, but I am educated. Society has always ruled morality, even those devout followers of the good book.

    Man has conveyed, written, rewritten, and interpreted the bible. Inquisition taught us that. I don't believe God would kick out a good person based on religious background.
     
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