Couple of fuel and tuning questions...

[MugenCRX]

Ok, right now, I have NO FUEL MANAGEMENT hooked up on my car. I have: Greddy E-Manage, RC 450cc saturated injectors, and a B&M FPR. How should I go about tuning all of this once it's installed? Do I tune the E-Manage through a Laptop, or do I need a Profec or a Super AFC or something? Do I need a wideband O2, or is the stocker fine? And also, will I need a Fuel Pump and/or Fuel Rail?(Stock HF FP and stock LS rail right now.) And lastly, what should I do about the MAP sensor? I have a Missing Link, but it's for cars with the MAP attached to the IM, and mine is connected by a vaccuum line.

Any advice is much appriciated! Thanks dudeages!

EDIT: Here is the setup.

Stock B18A
T3/T4 .63 A/R .58 exhaust
HKS Wastegate
Greddy Type S BOV
Stock Fuel System EXCEPT a B&M FPR
Stock O2
Automatic LS ECU
OBD0

And I have E-Manage and RC 550cc SATURATED injectors uninstalled.

I don't know what else you guys need.

 

[MikeBergy]

It helps to post your build, what specifically you are tuning, etc. I've never used E-mange, but if you want to go beyond stock MAP limits (~12psi), I'd opt for a motorola or gm 3 bar MAP over a missing link. Definitely get a wideband, as you can't tune anything with narrowband (i.e. stock). Stay with standard rail pressure, you should be fine with it.

If I were you, I'd; 1)Sell the emanage 2)Buy a chipped p28 and a 3 bar MAP 3)Find someone in your area that can tune with crome pro 4) Get your car tuned with crome pro and call it a day.

From what I'm reading about the Emanage, it can only adjust the fuel in 5 spots. No sign of any ignition tuning, which is crucial for turbos.

 

[Turbo&Auto]

Emanage without the support tool can only tune in 4 or 5 spots on the front panel, similar to the old SAFC's.

If you buy the lappy software it has 16x16 tables for timing, maf fooling, and injector duty cycle on top of the ECU.

I love my emanage, also installed one on of my other car and a friend's car. They work well and arent terribly expensive. In my Matrix I have the Profec E-01, which is a Electronic boost controller and also a emanage tuner. Makes tuning on the butt dyno a lot easier to do on your own.

Def. buy a wideband!!!! EGT, fuel pres. are also good gauges to have. The EGT more then the fuel if you're on a budget.

 

[MugenCRX]

Quoted post[/post]]
It helps to post your build, what specifically you are tuning, etc. I've never used E-mange, but if you want to go beyond stock MAP limits (~12psi), I'd opt for a motorola or gm 3 bar MAP over a missing link. Definitely get a wideband, as you can't tune anything with narrowband (i.e. stock). Stay with standard rail pressure, you should be fine with it.

If I were you, I'd; 1)Sell the emanage 2)Buy a chipped p28 and a 3 bar MAP 3)Find someone in your area that can tune with crome pro 4) Get your car tuned with crome pro and call it a day.

From what I'm reading about the Emanage, it can only adjust the fuel in 5 spots. No sign of any ignition tuning, which is crucial for turbos.

But a p28 is OBD1. I'm still OBD0. Wouldn't I have to convert in order to do so?

Quoted post[/post]]
Emanage without the support tool can only tune in 4 or 5 spots on the front panel, similar to the old SAFC's.

If you buy the lappy software it has 16x16 tables for timing, maf fooling, and injector duty cycle on top of the ECU.

I love my emanage, also installed one on of my other car and a friend's car. They work well and arent terribly expensive. In my Matrix I have the Profec E-01, which is a Electronic boost controller and also a emanage tuner. Makes tuning on the butt dyno a lot easier to do on your own.

Def. buy a wideband!!!! EGT, fuel pres. are also good gauges to have. The EGT more then the fuel if you're on a budget.

And will E-Manage work on OBD0? And what kind of Wideband should I look into getting? Is it IMPOSSIBLE to tune on a stock O2? I'm low on funds as of late.

And what about one of THESE? Do I need one, or should I use one?

 

[phunky.buddha]

Quoted post[/post]]
But a p28 is OBD1. I'm still OBD0. Wouldn't I have to convert in order to do so?

And will E-Manage work on OBD0? And what kind of Wideband should I look into getting? Is it IMPOSSIBLE to tune on a stock O2? I'm low on funds as of late.

And what about one of THESE? Do I need one, or should I use one?

Yes, you would have to convert. There are quite a few tuning options open for OBD0 though, and they are quite easy to use. As long as you have an ECU that can be chipped, you can tune it with something like Ghettodyne or TurboEdit and a computer.

Yes, it's impossible to tune on a stock O2 sensor. The OEM O2 sensor really only has a smooth voltage response from very high 13s to very low 15s in terms of air/fuel ratio. A wideband will give you usable output from 10:1 to 20:1. You won't be able to get much usable tuning data from a stock O2 sensor. The plus side is that you don't have to BUY a wideband. Once you're done tuning, you don't need it in the car. Try to borrow one or "rent" one.

Don't bother with the FMU. They only increase pressure a certain amount according to boost pressure. You still have to get your base fuel map right or the FMU will just amplify any errors in your tune. If you're able to run a true tuned program, you won't need an FMU to supply fuel at higher boost levels.

 

[MugenCRX]

Quoted post[/post]]
Yes, you would have to convert. There are quite a few tuning options open for OBD0 though, and they are quite easy to use. As long as you have an ECU that can be chipped, you can tune it with something like Ghettodyne or TurboEdit and a computer.

Ok. Is a 1990 Auto Integra ECU chippable. I started to read over at PGMFI.org, and confused the shit out of myself. How much does Ghettodyne or Turboedit cost?

Quoted post[/post]]
Yes, it's impossible to tune on a stock O2 sensor. The OEM O2 sensor really only has a smooth voltage response from very high 13s to very low 15s in terms of air/fuel ratio. A wideband will give you usable output from 10:1 to 20:1. You won't be able to get much usable tuning data from a stock O2 sensor. The plus side is that you don't have to BUY a wideband. Once you're done tuning, you don't need it in the car. Try to borrow one or "rent" one.

Awesome! I will definetly try to borrow one from someone local. My good friend has a brand new AEM one that he isn't using, I will try to snake that off of him. And also, do you know if E-Manage is OBD0 compatible, or should I just sell the E-Manage and go a completley different route. Only reason I am wondering about the E-Manage so much is that I already have it!

Quoted post[/post]]
Don't bother with the FMU. They only increase pressure a certain amount according to boost pressure. You still have to get your base fuel map right or the FMU will just amplify any errors in your tune. If you're able to run a true tuned program, you won't need an FMU to supply fuel at higher boost levels.

Ok, so no FMU. With out it being tuned before the use of the FMU, it's pretty much pointless.

Thank you Calesta and everyone else for all the help so far! I just want to drive my car without it blowing up!

 

[MikeBergy]

Ok. Is a 1990 Auto Integra ECU chippable. I started to read over at PGMFI.org, and confused the shit out of myself. How much does Ghettodyne or Turboedit cost?

TurboEdit is free. It is only ROM editing software, however, and you'll have to buy the hardware to go with it.
I've heard of people using the pr4 ecus with turboedit, and the auto to manual conversion can be done easily. I am personally using a PM6, TurboEdit, LM-1 Wideband, and Moates Ostrich for RTP tuning. Works great, except my idle is still off a little. I'm not quite sure why yet, though it was much better in Denver for some reason...go figure.

Awesome! I will definetly try to borrow one from someone local. My good friend has a brand new AEM one that he isn't using, I will try to snake that off of him. And also, do you know if E-Manage is OBD0 compatible, or should I just sell the E-Manage and go a completley different route. Only reason I am wondering about the E-Manage so much is that I already have it!

The AEM UEGO is a good wideband controller from what I've heard. Pricey, though, so don't break it, lol. I am using an Innovate LM-1, it works well, but the controller is a bit bulky compared to most other options out there. A budget route to the wideband would be the LC-1, but you either need to purchase a gauge to keep an eye on it, or send the analog signal to datalogging software, because it doesn't have a display. The upside is that it is only $200. I'm pretty sure most piggybacks are only obd1 compatible, not obd0. You probably won't be able to use it.

Ok, so no FMU. With out it being tuned before the use of the FMU, it's pretty much pointless.

Yes, the FMU is pointless if you have ACTUAL fuel management.

In your position, if you want to do it the budget route, get your auto pr4 ecu converted for manual, and get it chipped and a datalogging port installed. Then use turboedit to tune with. The newer open source turbo edit has a datalogger built in, so it's pretty easy to tune with that. If you want to spend the extra cash, convert to obd1, as the tuning options are much better going with obd1. I like turboedit, don't get me wrong, but a LOT more people, specifically good tuners, are more familiar with Crome, and the tools that Crome has make it a much more complete tuning solution. I hope to make the conversion soon, but lack of funding is keeping me from doing so. For turboedit, there are a FEW bugs, but they haven't been an issue for me. And the cool thing about opensource is the fact that you can add stuff to make the software more tailored for your needs. I'm writing code to add an EGT to the datalogger for turboedit, but school projects are keeping me preoccupied.

 

[MugenCRX]

Quoted post[/post]]
TurboEdit is free. It is only ROM editing software, however, and you'll have to buy the hardware to go with it.
I've heard of people using the pr4 ecus with turboedit, and the auto to manual conversion can be done easily. I am personally using a PM6, TurboEdit, LM-1 Wideband, and Moates Ostrich for RTP tuning. Works great, except my idle is still off a little. I'm not quite sure why yet, though it was much better in Denver for some reason...go figure.

The AEM UEGO is a good wideband controller from what I've heard. Pricey, though, so don't break it, lol. I am using an Innovate LM-1, it works well, but the controller is a bit bulky compared to most other options out there. A budget route to the wideband would be the LC-1, but you either need to purchase a gauge to keep an eye on it, or send the analog signal to datalogging software, because it doesn't have a display. The upside is that it is only $200. I'm pretty sure most piggybacks are only obd1 compatible, not obd0. You probably won't be able to use it.

Ok. I have really been looking into TurboEdit. Are you using the free version off the site? Would you be able to give me the sites to purchase these from?
1. LM-1 Wideband
2. Moates Ostrich
I'm probably just going to steal your basic tuning setup, because if it works for you, I imagine it'll work for me.

And also do you happen to know where I can find a write up on how to conver the ECU from auto to manual? I figured I'd ask before I start the search process!

Quoted post[/post]]
Yes, the FMU is pointless if you have ACTUAL fuel management.

In your position, if you want to do it the budget route, get your auto pr4 ecu converted for manual, and get it chipped and a datalogging port installed. Then use turboedit to tune with. The newer open source turbo edit has a datalogger built in, so it's pretty easy to tune with that. If you want to spend the extra cash, convert to obd1, as the tuning options are much better going with obd1. I like turboedit, don't get me wrong, but a LOT more people, specifically good tuners, are more familiar with Crome, and the tools that Crome has make it a much more complete tuning solution. I hope to make the conversion soon, but lack of funding is keeping me from doing so. For turboedit, there are a FEW bugs, but they haven't been an issue for me. And the cool thing about opensource is the fact that you can add stuff to make the software more tailored for your needs. I'm writing code to add an EGT to the datalogger for turboedit, but school projects are keeping me preoccupied.

Eventually when I build a stronger motor, I will convert to OBD1 and go from there. I think I'll go with Turbo Edit for now.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Honda OBD1 ECUs also have a much faster sampling rate and more power processors too- so you can tune more precisely. Keep that in mind for later.

For everything else, Mike's advice has been right on target.

 

[MugenCRX]

Quoted post[/post]]
Honda OBD1 ECUs also have a much faster sampling rate and more power processors too- so you can tune more precisely. Keep that in mind for later.

For everything else, Mike's advice has been right on target.

Thanks again guys for all the help. Like I said. I would and eventually will convert to OBD1, but I'm short on funds. I'm starting to talk my girlfriend into giving me some money just to get going with the management stuff! Being 20, broke as hell and obsessed with a Honda....well....it's great!

 

[phunky.buddha]

Yup, I know how you feel. Toys are expensive.

You can still make awesome power and have a good tune with non-OBD setups- don't misunderstand. I'll be running Katie's Civic on a non-OBD system. I don't want to spend the money to convert hers, and I already have all the parts.

 

[MugenCRX]

Quoted post[/post]]
Yup, I know how you feel. Toys are expensive.

You can still make awesome power and have a good tune with non-OBD setups- don't misunderstand. I'll be running Katie's Civic on a non-OBD system. I don't want to spend the money to convert hers, and I already have all the parts.

LUCKY!!!

I need to find someone to buy this E-Manage from me so that I can start collecting the goods!

 

[phunky.buddha]

Eh, leftovers from the CRX, giveaways from friends, and even a chip burner for dirt cheap too.