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Craigslist addict needs accurate swap advice

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> ED-EF / DA' started by Reboticon, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. Reboticon

    Reboticon New Member

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    Alright Honda gods, allow myself to introduce..myself. Ive had an ED for approximately 48 hours now so if Im noobish, I apologize. I have a LOT of mechanical experience with cars, but I've always considered anything less than two tons more of a go cart.:hide:

    So Id been reconsidering my stance on go carts recently, and decided with current gas prices, it might not be so bad to have one that I could drive around town with. I also have a bet with myself about how many dissambled cars I can park in my yard before the neighbors start complaining about property blight.

    So while checking craigslist parts the other night, I ran across what I consider to be a great deal on a 91 civic 4 door with a blown motor, for $350. The body is incredibly straight, the interior nice, and the paint looks like it would have been decent if the high school kid i bought it from hadn't covered it in a terrible primer job:eek:

    Pics:
    http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp130/reboticon/Civic/PIC-0221.jpg
    http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp130/reboticon/Civic/PIC-0223.jpg
    http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp130/reboticon/Civic/PIC-0224.jpg
    http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp130/reboticon/Civic/PIC-0225.jpg

    Pic of motor. Check out that intake:mullet:
    http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp130/reboticon/Civic/PIC-0227.jpg

    So i start reading up a little bit on swaps, and what pops up on craigslist? a Lot of two 90+93 integra notors with a transmission, an ECU, and linkage for $200. Now as im sure a lot of you know, no true car guy can pass up a deal that good when it could apply to their current project, so of course i bought it.

    Pics of what $200 gets you in hillbilly land
    http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp130/reboticon/Civic/swap1.jpg
    http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp130/reboticon/Civic/swap2.jpg
    http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp130/reboticon/Civic/swap3.jpg
    http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp130/reboticon/Civic/swap4.jpg
    http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp130/reboticon/Civic/swap5.jpg

    I should mention now that my car is auto. After reviewing what I got and whats needed for the swap, ill still need a shifter, clutch, clutch pedal assembly, integra throttle cable, axles, wiring harness, and a mount kit. Is that right? Did I leave anything out or forget anything?

    This leads me to the second part of my question. Now that i realize how much i will still need for the swap, i am starting to think I may just grab a D16a1 from an 87-89 Integra. I can grab one of those for around $100 and it seems a good bolt in option while im collecting Bseries swap parts.

    Does the D16a1 bolt in without a mount kit?

    Will it mount up to the auto transmission that is in there now?

    Is there a DIY or wiring diagram so that I can make my own conversion harness or am i going to have to buy one?

    Am I correct in assuming I will need to grab the tegs ECU also?

    There are my questions. I realize most of them are answered with searches but there are conflicting answers and just too many motor types for me absorb in one sitting. So I throw myself at the mercy of the honda gods who are said to reside in this place. Can ya help me out?
     
  2. Justin91civic

    Justin91civic New Member

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    I would start out by saying that you would be better off with a d16a6 then the a1. The a6 is the motor that came in the si civics of those years and it is a direct bolt on. I have done the swap and it does not take that long to do. As far as wiring is concerned there is a DPFI to MPFI article in the reference section on this site. I used that article and it works like a champ. As far as the b series questions I will leave that open to the other people on the site with better experience.
     
  3. capricefrk013

    capricefrk013 is waiting for summer

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    Welcome to HS. Nice find bro.
     
  4. Reboticon

    Reboticon New Member

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    Thanks guys, for the responses. Couple new questions. The D16a6 from the Si. Does the Si just designate the hatchback or is it an upgraded version of the hatchback? My local pick a part is showing several 88-91 civics in their lot, so this is definitely an option for me to consider. Unfortunately it would still cost me over double what a D16a1 would cost, plus a lot of hours at the yard. The D16a1 is already pulled. Since the final plan is a B series im really looking for the cheapest solution until then. Are there reasons not to use a D16a1 or do you just like the D16a6?

    Are the top ends interchangeable on the D16a6 and the D16a1? That could be an option as well. I would be ok with dropping in a D16a1 block and grabbing the topend from the yard. Again, thanks for the responses. I believe Ill go try to find that reference article you mentioned and start my conversion harness.

    http://hondaswap.com/swap-articles/dpfi-mpfi-writeup-49557/<- this is the article you mentioned correct?

    Both the D16a1 and D16a6 require a conversion to MPFI, correct?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2008
  5. slowlx

    slowlx Junior Member

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    The d16a1 is the oddball of the d motors, it has a different trans bolt pattern and motor mounts. It won't bolt right up to your trans and you would need to make a custom motor mount.
    The SI was the top of 3 models of the hatch, DX mid, STD bottom. The 4dr had the EX, LX(yours), and DX.
    If you just want to get it running until you do your swap you can use just about any d15 or d16 from a civic, and use your current dizzy, ecu, and intake manifold. The d16a1 is from the first gen Integra.
     
  6. Reboticon

    Reboticon New Member

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    Thats what I needed to know. Thank you very much.

    Now then, can anyone tell me if i left out anything else i will need for the B swap?
     
  7. INJEN78

    INJEN78 HS LEGEND

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    goodluck with a swap into an auto car..its a bitch,,if i was you id get a standard shell
     
  8. slowlx

    slowlx Junior Member

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    clutch cable
     
  9. Reboticon

    Reboticon New Member

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    Thanks. Btw, 3 years a registered member, 5 posts, and two of them in answer to my questions. I feel special.;)

    Thanks for the Info. What makes it more difficult, needing additional parts or am i going to need my "sawzall installation kit" to run the clutch linkage into the car?

    Now im thinking maybe Ill just drop a D16a6 into this four door, sell one of my two B18a1s to get my money back and keep the rest of the conversion stuff for another project.

    Im starting to like these civics, you can get an entire car or engine/tranny for less than the price of a set of headers for one of my Ka7s.

    Thanks for all the info, if you guys think of anything else i need to consider, please let me know.
     
  10. slowlx

    slowlx Junior Member

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  11. INJEN78

    INJEN78 HS LEGEND

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    ts just more work than I would do..itd be so easier to just get another shell..and if you have 2 motors you could easily get $300 for one
    i bought my shell for $400 no motor,trany,seats..amd its got a little rust over the wheels
     
  12. Reboticon

    Reboticon New Member

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    Bloody Hell. I have been on the phone all damn day trying to find a D16A6. Best price i could find was $400 plus a 3 hour drive. Im like " do you guys realize i could import a B16 from Japan for about $300 more?!" Ridiculous. On top of that I singlehandedly ended the drought in TN by deciding it was dry enough to leave my other project in the garage and do this one in the open. Leaves only Pull a Part or rebuilding the B15b2. Im not shelling out that kind of cash for a 17 year old motor. Any of my fellow TNers know where I can score one for cheap?

    Thanks for manual swap link.
     
  13. slowlx

    slowlx Junior Member

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    Saw a d15b7 on craigslist for $175, but I think it needed a head gasket.
     
  14. INJEN78

    INJEN78 HS LEGEND

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    he wants a d16a6 not a d15
     
  15. Reboticon

    Reboticon New Member

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    Well i wanted the D16a6 because thats what was recommended. I would prefer to keep this car automatic (I know- Blasphemy) because there will be several people using it to make pick ups and drop offs.

    I realize that I have veered way off topic of a hybrid swap, but im just going to keep everything in one thread. If a mod wants to move it, thats cool.

    Ok can you guys help me with my options if I want to keep this car an automatic? Im assuming there is no auto trans that mates to the B series?
    Is the D16z6 a straight bolt in, mounts and trannywise? Im assuming there will have to be an OBD1 conversion + vtec circuits, but mechanically is it a bolt in?

    Are there other automatic engine combos that will drop in with wiring changes and a mount kit? If im going to have to shell out that kind of money for a decent engine, Id rather just wait till I can score a near new engine/tranny from craigslist when somebody wrecks one than pay almost the same for a near 20 year old engine.

    Assuming I can hold off the rain tomorrow Im gonna run down to pull a part and make a note of what combos are on the lot. Hopefully there will be a D16a6 there I can grab for $200, but im not holding my breath.
     
  16. Justin91civic

    Justin91civic New Member

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    There are b series automatics out there but they are something that alot of people do not look that much into on here. The d16z6 is a direct bolt in swap for this car you just use your motor mounts and tranny and like you mentioned above the wiring changes to obd1 and vtec along with the mpfi wiring. The easiest and most non complex swap is the d16a6 just remember when you go to the junk yard to get one out of a auto car. The ecus are different between a auto and manual. Also grab the resistor box when your there as well it is on the drivers side shock tower.
     
  17. Reboticon

    Reboticon New Member

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    Thanks. Im not actually that worried about complexity, Its keeping it an automatic + not spending a lot of money + having more than 90hp. Doesnt have to be much more but at least a little.

    Thanks for info on D16z6. Last possible motor: D16y8. How does this motor rate- will it bolt in?

    Choices Ive found today:
    D15B7 - about 200$
    D16z6- about 400$
    D16y8 - about 300$.
    I know a lot of the folks at the local yard so if those prices seem off its because I knew the guy. All of them are in good condition. Which one would you guys go with? (assuming the wiring is one of the easiest parts for me)

    Also where would be a good place to try and research B autotrannies?
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2008
  18. GlassHeadlights

    GlassHeadlights West West Yall

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    The D16Y8 is sort of a bad motor. They have bad oiling so many of them spin bearings or blow. And also wiring is much, much harder because its OBD2. I would recommend a D16A6 for simplicity or a D16Z6 for power, which ever you prefer. There are many, many write-ups for both swaps on here.

    Oh and btw: D16A6: 108HP----D16Z6: 125HP

    So if you are looking for simplicity I'd gor for a D16A6 with the auto transmission thats already in your car. And yes its easier, cheaper and possible.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2008
  19. Reboticon

    Reboticon New Member

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    Good to know. That ones out. D16a6 is out because im not paying 4 or 5 hundred for one of them. That leaves D15B7 or D16Z6.

    The rain let up so I went and pulled the D15B2. Took about 4 hours which i guess is not to bad for first attempt. I was by myself so it was a trip guiding the motor and working the hoist. Anyone who can do it without hitting the chassis a bunch of times gets my respect. Also some jackass completely managed to wear off the lip on the driver side lower control arm. Took me an hour of mix and matching different puller arms till i found a combination that would break lose the ball joint.

    Rebuilding the D15B2 is no longer an option. I gotta admit ive never seen an NA 4 cylinder blow like this. Is it common on Hondas? Im also now assuming that these cars don't have a rev limit on the ECU map?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  20. GlassHeadlights

    GlassHeadlights West West Yall

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    I've bought 2 (out of 8) Civics of that generation (88-91) and the two that blew up someone attemped to rebuild them and did something wrong. If you take care of these motors ther are good up to 400,000 kms or whaterver the miles converted is. Here is what I have left:

    [​IMG]

    Other then that I think both thoes motors you mensioned are OBD1 so choose more power or less power. The D16Z6 is 125hp and the D15B7 is 102hp. There is basically the same ammount of wiring for both except the D16Z6 has VTEC so you would have to add 3 more wires vs. the D15B7. I would recommend a OBD0 to OBD1 conversion harness which is like $80 shipped of eBay. Other then that everything else should come on the motor (wiring harness, all sensors, manifolds, ect.)
     
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