d15b2 potential

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well i just found out that you cant override the ecu rev limit with a piggyback. hmmn, damn. i dont thihk the apexi vafc is what i need. do i need a chipped ecu? i was hoping that if i had an afc then i wouldent need a wideband or a special ecu, as widebands are horrendously expensive, and a chipped ecu would only be chipped for one setting...ack! any help plz.
 
Wow. Ok. Lots of assumptions.

Yes, increasing your engine cooling capacity and oil cooling capacity can help- if you NEED it. The stock cooling capacity of the D15B7's stock radiator is more than enough to handle the added heat load of a tuned B series engine, not to mention a very slightly modded D series engine. The same goes for your oil cooler- it's not needed. Adding capacity doesn't do anything for you if you're not already maxing out the capacity of your current system. It just adds complexity and cost. Also, just because a 4AGE uses an oil cooler, it doesn't mean that the D15B7 needs one. The engines have different designs, different engineers that came up with those designs- they really have nothing in common that would dictate similar required equipment at all.

Keep the stock radiator setup. Save money.
Keep the stock radiator thermostat. Save money.
Don't add the oil cooler. Save money.

The throttle body spacer doesn't really give you anything. It just ever so slightly increases the volume of your intake manifold, but that's it. You don't increase your flow capacity significantly with it.

The racing axles really aren't needed either. Stock axles hold quite a bit of power- and will definitely hold up to any power level you can put out with the stock unmolested block.

The OBD1 DX ECU does have a fuel cut. I think it was at 6800rpm. I think. It's been a while since I've had my D15B7. Overriding it will require some kind of aftermarket complete ECU tuning system like Hondata, Uberdata, Crome or something that directly modifies the fuel and timing maps on the ECU.

A V-AFC works by cheating the maps that are already in place on the ECU. The MAP reads a certain pressure, and the V-AFC intercepts it and feeds a false value to the ECU to trick it into giving you more or less fuel. Your timing maps change to whatever cell the fuel map is riding in at the time. It's not anywhere close to ideal, but it can work for simpler setups (yours). Since it relies on tricking the stock ECU maps, it's not able to create new lines/rows where there are none past the stock rev limit. A standalone or semi-standalone with a new map has to do that.

The V-AFC also doesn't have an easy "on-off toggle" switch. It's either on or it's been disconnected from your ECU. You could wire in a bypass that allows you to switch it on or off, but you would have to wire in two parallel pathways to your sensors. The V-AFC wires in-line with your MAP and TPS, so if it's not turned on your car won't work- the signals won't get to the ECU at all. The V-AFC has no idea what air/fuel ratio you're running, so you WILL need a wideband sensor to properly tune your car. In any case, a proper tune for more power also means that your engine is running more efficiently to produce that power. You won't want to be out of the "power" map. You'll be more fuel efficient with it, especially since you're not doing anything inside the engine to require richer conditions.

An aftermarket cam and cam gear are a good idea. If you're going to spend the money though, just get a new aftermarket cam. You won't gain all too much from just the Si cam. Anyway, with the money you save from skipping the radiator and the oil cooler, you can get a pretty nice camshaft. The cam gear is a must to fine-tune it.

There is a different transmission that matches the description you're talking about- it's the ZC transmission. It was never available in the US version of the CRX. You can get it and use the gears in your EG, but you'll have to do some replumbing to get the entire transmission to bolt in. Your car has a hydraulically actuated clutch- the ZC transmission only had a cable clutch. You can't mix and match the two.

Good luck.
 
ok, thanks man that answers a lot of my questions. how about those spoon and mugen chips, are they bs or do they actually increase the amount of fuel throughout the range and raise the fuel cut to 8200?

so, as for the cooling system,its nice to know the capacity is fine. ive seen b swaps using the stock EG radiator, but i didnt know if they didnt have the "correct" radiator, or if that one was actually proper. the thing that gets me is the plastic. ive always regarded plastic radiators as cheap and junky, with no sort of prestige in the quality of thier design @ all. ive even seen plenty of them cracked as well. ive seen this happen to a few honda radiators and im sure others. thats why i am sort of worried about the stock radiator, even though the one in my car appears to be very close to "brand new" .. i was just thinking that a stainless steel one was a better quality design and would hold up better and last longer in the end...

so if i just got a cam and sprocket, and a vafc anf the chipped ecu(if its not bs) then would that = a nice entry level tuning system for a lightly modified engine that would give me real time control from the cab and allow me to say, move the powerband around where i wanted it with respect to the position of the cam and have eliminated the fuel cut issue(since the chip moves it to 8200 and this is only an 8000 rpm engine stock) ??

im more worried about spending money on the most correct-as-possible parts, but trying to hunt down the best hackarounds i can find, things that are = quality of good components, but marketed elsewhere and can be sniped out for a good deal, to save money that way. hence the VW oil cooler system. the ones for the civics, etc go for over 150, but its the same shit. 1/2 connectors, stainless lines. the only thing that seemed important was the cooling capacity and appropriate sandwich plate. the reason im so worried about cooling, is because when i rev, id like to be able to rev for a while without worrying about damaging the block.

so instead of the engine getting really hot while in a high rev state, the cooling system compensates and keeps it at a lower level. i want to be able to run the engine @ high revs for long periods of time. im not interested in drag racing, but for using the power in bursts, where i need it. and with these hilly/mountainous roads around here, it would be nice to be able to keep the engine in the powerband and keep it armed for the corners. so if i am revving to7,000 a lot, but not overrevinng, wouldent that be kindas like maxing ot the capacity of the engine because it is causing dmaage to the internals? and if i had a system that compensated for the heat and matched it on the way up to the "new" peak, wouldent my engine be more secure? like the processor, the hotter it gets the more cooling it needs to maintain that optimal operating temperature, which would be interesting to know in this case.

basically, im dissatisfied with all i have seen and heard about ppls d engines not lasting that long under high load, and i would like to find a way to extend that life. i was thinking the systme would help keep the internals such as the bearings, crank and rods, seals, and block etc cooler when they should be heating up a lot more due to the friction. i could uinderstand the pistons themselves not being saved, because as the rest of the engine stays cooler, they would be sacrificed because they would have more load paced on them if i was to decide to rev higher for longer periods of time, being thats where the combustion is, theres no way to really get around that unless i used some sort of coated super bad ass piston like ROSS racing nitrous pistons built for NA nitrous applications, but then that would be overkill compared to the rest of stock internals. basically, i dont want my d15b7 internals to go bad as fast as they are supposed to under high rev conditions.

what is considered maxing out the d15b7's capacity? doesnt persistant high revving = high heat and more damage? apparently, its not good enough as it is or those rings, bearings, seals, and most of the rest of the moving parts of the d engines would last longer, in my opinion, so why even give it a chance? why not just make it so it doesnt even have the option of giving me the same trouble as it would if i were to run it hard as it is now? or maybe im looking @ it wrong, like missing something... i know what you said about it not needing extra cooling b/c of not going past its current max capacity, but again im not exactly clear on what its max capacity is, if everytime it has an rpm it is being slowly damaged, a countdown to its death, and when you rev it hard, that just speeds up the process. so im unclear on why the stock cooling capacity is fine, and the normal level of damage attained to the engine from the stock cooling system is considered acceptable?

definately not trying to argue your point, im just unlcear on exactly why its not neccesary and why it wont make any difference and what is maxing out compared to what the current system can do to negate the damage.

anyway im going to take your advice and roll with the cam + sprocket + vafc for now, since cooling isnt a directly severe issue atm.
ill need to find a cam that is streetable, and just a little more aggro than the si cam, since it must be streetable,m since its my daily driver.
im unclear about the chpped ecus, but ive heard and read a lot of posts claiming that they work, and ive heard a few posts claiming its just bs
but if the vafc understandably cannot modify what doesnt exist on the ecu, and if that chip doesnt work and is just bs, id still be stuck with the old rev limit, wouldent it?

well heres some fresh pix:
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heres 1 from nippon racing (cheapo?) for 150-ish
its for the d15b d16 non vtec.
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DM SOHC ZC HONDA CIVIC CAMSHAFT

NIPPON RACING STAGE 2 CAMSHAFTS

GREAT MID AND TOP END WITH SLIGHT LUMPY IDLE

STAGE 2 CAMSHAFTS MAKE GOOD POWER BETWEEN 3500-7500

LOBE CENTERS HAVE BEEN MOVED TO 110 ON THE INTAKE AND 104 ON THE EXHAUST

MADE TO FIT D15B D16 AND SOHC ZC NON VTEC MOTORS

seems like its what im looking for, but i dont know what the lobe centers were on the original d15b7 camshaft. hopefully this is a mild camshaft, that ends up allowing me to achive a nice 2500-3,000 rpm wide powerband, but enough torque and power for putting around in the 25's or in 5th on the highways.
 
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Wow, a lot of reading. I'll try my best(I just skimmed through).

Ditto on the radiator. If anything, invest in just the oil cooler. It'll help you out when running at high revs for extended periods of time. There's plenty of D-series in road racing that are doing fine. As far as power limits go, around 200whp is considered safe for a stock block.

For the cam, go for Bisimoto's cams. His website is Bisimoto Engineering and he can definitely help you out with your setup. Although, I'd skip the VAFC and go for a tune if you can. Avoid any of the "Mugen" chips, etc.
 
ok, so why stay away from the chips? same goes then for "chipped" ecu's?
i want to tune it myself, so do i have to get a wideband then?

ive been seeing wideband systems, im thinking the apexi power fc + commander is what i may need, but its kinda pricey. honestly, id be happy with one of the gauge ones but they appear to need a lappy to interface with so that you can run real time editing software, and im not sure that you can make analog adjustments from just the gauge in the cab.
if i ran the lappy, id have to mount it under the pass seat, then run a 7" display to the right of the steering wheel, and find some editing software that i could choose to display the a/f info in a neat window, then mount a wheelmouse setup on the center console so that i could rest my arm comfortably while not shifting and have control over the desktop whilst being able to command the engine via the software running in realtime on the lappy, but that could be bad if the lappy crashed unexpectedly, as the engine wont know how to behave b/c the brain went on a trip to vegas..
id feel much better having a device thats like the vafc but that allowed complete control over the engines a/f and timimng and monitoring instead of the ecu, and would allow for easy @-a-glance monitoring fo the stoich, seperate from the laptop which could crash. are those gauge type ones that are going for around 250-ish capable of being tuned without a lappy,and if not, then what am i looking for? i cant seem to find it. so far ive found these but again im not sure if they are what im looking for:
innovate wideband gauge system:
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dynojet wideband commander:
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innovate wideband ?? ?:
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autometer wideband:
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however, i suspect you would have to rely on a lappy to be able to tune with them. ifd i could just build my own device i would, instead of being in this position. but until then im hoping ill find something that has been designed with the same idea i have in mind...

also, i have a much simpler but equally important if not more important question: whats the best type of oil to run in the d15b7? i was looking inot lucas 20w 50 racing oil. but i was talking with a freind earlier and he told me that its better to just go up in stages, which i had been considering. rioght now the previous owner was running 5w 30. yikes! but its a fresh block. regardless, i would feel more comfortable knowing my engine was running oil that wasnt going to disintegrate @ high rpms. 10w 40 was the next up in mind. im worried about going fully synthetic, because then after that i couldent go back, but am i right to want to use fully synthetic? i want to find an oil that can run thin enough to create lees resistance, and can be strong enough to do so without thinning out to the point of breakdown, while being cooled by an external system that will allow it to keep doing so, so that the engine is more secure. im not sure what the best over the shelf oil is for this engine, and i was thinking that lucas pure racing oil would definately "nip it in the bud" but id hate to be responsible for a drastic move of overkill if something of lesser spec would do the job just fine.
 
wow, now this is an engine that makes sense right here. sohc w/itb's .. go bisimoto
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apparently, its a 9.522 second engine mounted in a drag crx.. notice how the top fuel rail is mounted so that injectors squirt into the stacks for an optimum fuel/air mixing environment... a beautiful naturally aspirated machine. in fact its making me hard and filling me with lust. i wonder if that top fuel rail is for nitrous, or if he is running 2 rails. but then why 2 rails? hmmn
 
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ok ok to make things simple. after i find the oil im looking for, say i wanted to slap in si cam in there. nothing major, just a bit more power. could i do that + adjustable sprocket and just tune the sprocket and dizzy until i have it where i want it for now? would the vafc or equivilant piggyback work for just this, and give me enough range to work with the si cam? or will i still be in the wideband boat and with no ability to move the rev limit in my ecu.

calesta i understand what you are saying about needing a wideband, im looking for a way around having to invest in one, and i was hoping the chip would raise the rpm limit so that i could cheat the ecu with an extra 1000 rpm to play with by using the vafc, so that i can at least make sure i can add more fuel for the cam, and when. if i can mod the fuel by fooling the ecu, then perhaps i could just invest in a wideband gauge with sensor, and use the vafc to set the fuel, and just tune it like that instead of using the lappy.. would i be good in this case if i decided to only install an si camshaft?
 
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apparently, its a 9.522 second engine mounted in a drag crx.. notice how the top fuel rail is mounted so that injectors squirt into the stacks for an optimum fuel/air mixing environment... a beautiful naturally aspirated machine. in fact its making me hard and filling me with lust. i wonder if that top fuel rail is for nitrous, or if he is running 2 rails. but then why 2 rails? hmmn
Correction; that's a Honda Insight. His CRX is gone(when that motor was in the CRX, it was still using carbs).

You need to run two rails for two sets of injectors. He's running staged injection I believe. He does NOT run nitrous. With that ITB setup, he's just running methanol.

If you're tuning yourself, a Innovate LC-1 would work fine. All you would need to do is socket the ECU and get yourself a datalog cable, laptop, tuning program like Crome and a logging software like Freelog, and a chip burner or emulator or both.

VAFC's are pretty much "hacks". They just trick the ECU into injecting more fuel. Tuning allows you to set parameters including ignition, rev limits, etc. Those ebay chips usually have very shitty tunes to begin with; just avoid them and save your money.
 
damn, ok so i guess theres no way to really get around it. well, i need to face this anyway. i just want something that plugs right up to the ecu.
 
52mm (2 1/16”) air fuel gauges. Each gauge features a bright LED (available in blue or red), and retails for $289. Each kit includes the gauge, an LC-1 wideband controller, oxygen sensor & bung/plug, and the award-winning LogWorks engine-tuning software.
Key benefits of the “DB” kits include:

  • The industry’s most accurate and fastest-responding wideband controller.
  • One additional available analog output (one connects to the gauge).
  • Easy set up and wiring (instructions included).
  • LC-1 incIudes Innovate serial in & out for adding additional modular tuning system (MTS) components. (Gauge itself is analog only- no serial).
  • “Blackout” appearance when unpowered.
  • Log directly from the LC-1’s digital output into laptop w/included software:

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i suppose this will work... i think there is wideband with usb somewhere...
i definately dont like the idearof my engine not running unless the vafc is on, so id prefer a standalone that just interfaces with the lappy that i can tune uin real time, whenever, wherever. i think ill save up for the wideband and not install the cam until i come up with all the components for the wideband control system, then i guess ill be doing it right.
 
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i found hondata, crome, and dynojets winpep software, downloaded them, and have been checking them. hondata seems to be the most user freindly one ive found. so do i have the software ill need?(unless thats some demo version)

im thinking if i have the software, now i need a wideband sensor. there are many to choose from..
do i need a controller, for the gauge and sensor to interface with, then for the laptop to plug into? ive seen some with usb, instead of what i think is serial. perhaps they are using serial to usb converters. usb would be very good. im assuming you cant just use a gauge and sensor and laptop, without a controller...
so if i have the software, can i just piece together a random build from different parts makers, or are these wideband systems mostly proprietary? like, can i just get some wideband sensor and gauge, then some different controller, use a usb to serial converter, plug in my laptop and go to town until i get the fuel map developed correctly? or will i need to just buy a 3-500 kit.

im really both interested and serious about wanting to maike sure my engine is tuned correctly, just need to know what ill need as far as the rest of the components go. there seems to be a lot of wrtie ups with pix and i think ive got a pretty good general idea on how to install the system, except for any hacking into wires that it may involve. im hoping there will be no splicing, and i can keep things as plug n play as possible.

also, i saw an aem peak & hold injector driver module. im guessing this would require peak and hold injectors. why would i need peak and hold injectors, are they more presice? would i need this aem injector driver if it was wise to move to peak and hold injectors?
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i realize i have a lot to learn. i just downloaded ECUflash, which allows you to reprogram ecu's, but i think its only for obdII. i was thinking this would be a good tool to set my rev limit, if wideband and datalogging software doesnt do that....
first i thought a wideband controller was a standalone system. then i thuoght it was that + a laptop = standalone system. now im reading that the aem uego is "Ideal for use with any aftermarket stand-alone engine management system"... confused :/


 
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well nobody seems to know but everybody seems to be doing it, can you use your laptop to control the engine or is it just for analytical purposes. also what is the mechanism that allows you to interface with the ecu? yea i feel like a noob
 
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The laptop just changes the parameters in the ECU. So in a way, yes, you can use your laptop to control the ECU.

You'd need a chip burner or emulator to actually change the parameters. The ECU reads off the chip, which has a map that was created by the user on the laptop.
 
ah, ok.so now i need to find all the components necessary to be able to program ecu chips with one of my computers, and software that hopefully is gui based to do it with. last night i experienced the fuel cut on my ecu. i was trying to run down one of those newer model integras, b/c he was messing with me, and was actually gaining on him but then the fuel cut, which caught me off gaurd b/c i wasnt paying attn to the tach and subsequently messed up my shifting as well, which threw me out of the powerband, and he got away.
 
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