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Del Sol Swap?

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> EG-EK / DC' started by zueke, Dec 26, 2002.

  1. zueke

    zueke Senior Member

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    I might be getting a kick ass job that pays really well. If I do I will be able to get about 12k saved up by May or so. The car I would put this all into would be my 1994 Del Sol SI. The car I would want to still be very streetable, but somewhere in the 11-12 second range if still possible to be streetable. If I can, here is the questions I pose to you all:

    What engine would everyone suggest? I was leaning towards a resleeved B18, but what does everyone else think?

    I want forced induction, so what turbo, manifold, intercooler, exhaust... Hondata of course, and larger injectors.

    I also wanted to lower the car, so what should I get for a nice ride, yet about a 2" drop? I also wanted to get Rota 15's, what tires should I get?

    Will I need to upgrade the valvetrain? With what?

    Is there anything I am forgetting?

    Just trying to get ideas... thanks all.
     
  2. pills_PMD

    pills_PMD Super Moderator

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    what kind of job man?? hook a fellow EL man up!!
     
  3. Nayuki Minase

    Nayuki Minase Banned

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    intercooler, seats, brakes, seatbeats(4/5 point?), wings or anything to produce enough downforce....
     
  4. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    wings? i hope you are kidding. lol

    you want 11s, t4 60-1 turbo or a t3 60-1 p-trim wheel on either.

    I was goign the t3/to4e route like everyone else and their mother until i was enlightend.
    its probably the WORST turbo for street. why? because it makes both a lot of power and has not a lot of lag. This combo means, no traction in 1st, 2nd and part of 3rd in a launch.
    the larger t4 60-1 is a more gradual boost- almost like a huge shot of n20. you will lag until about 4500 or so- but who cares... that maintains your fuel economy for daily driving... crusing on the highway at 85 mph, and you are STILL out of boost (with an ls tranny at least). so your driving for daily is uneffected. but once you hit 4500, the boost increases almost exponentially- but at the same time, its gradual- so come pek rpm, the turbo is making all kinds of power- and its harder to loose traction in a gear the faster you are going.

    that said, t4 manifolds are more expensive
    t4 60-1 is a $1200 turbo by itself.
    but thats a turbonetics (name brand gareet style) ball bearing.

    if you have the money, its kick ass. its what i plan to run.

    intercooler, i got a PWR from a lancer EVo 7. its thick, its medium sized, and i think it will fit inside the del sol front end without cutting of shit. big ones from spearco and skyline-styles are f'in huge. you will have to cut your bumper in some places or shave it down.

    I'm goign to run 720cc accel injectrors. maybe a little on the big side, but i wont max out thier duty cycle either.

    hondata- yup

    exhaust, im running a 3" downpipe to a car sound cat to a 3" thermal that im going to have to cut from an Eg hatch to fit the EH sol :)

    manifold, im all about equal length ones. I'm getting a kooks. others to consider are full-race
    they aren't cheap though either. inlinepro.com sells a cheap generic revhard-style T4 flanged manifold.

    suspension:
    nice ride? forget about it. pick one- lincoln continental stock ride, or performance ride from JIC or tein's.

    i'm still debating tires myself.

    S0-3's, good but heavy
    azines, good but cheap and i hear they flat spot easily
    p-zeros, great,but don't last for shit witha 140 treadwear
    parada spec2's, love 'em on my ride now, but they wont hold the power i will have
    kumhoes 712s, fuck them- i hate kumhoes
    so im still looking too...

    i wish yoko still made the avs intermediate :(

    you dont NEED to upgrade the valve train, but if you over rev, your done for, the ls cant hold a high rev.
    if you get a gsr instead, you should be fine- but always consider runnign turbo-cut cams. high lift, near-stock duration. overlap + boost = wasted power.

    you are forgetting half of your car :) and for 12 grand, i dunno dude... wheels, suspension, swap, turbo, hondata doesnt fit into a 12g budget if you ask me...

    i say take it one step at a time.

    suspension/wheels/brakes
    then
    swap
    then turbo
     
  5. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    holy shit that was a long post
    lol
     
  6. enaroy

    enaroy Junior Member

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    I would use the t3/t4 turbo the on a built B20 motor and use an LS tranny,
    Haltech and Quaiffe LSD. :D
     
  7. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    t3/t4 is a thing of the past... its a fad thats passing.. everyone and their mother is like, yeah t3/t4 that thing...
    the turbo sucks for street- too much power too fast = spiingin
    the turbo sucks in autox - what turbo doesnt
    the turbo sucks in all out drag - its too small
     
  8. zueke

    zueke Senior Member

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    What's so wrong with the Sol's 4 disk brakes right now?
    With the suspension, I was trying to stay somewhat near stock, I don't want something that feels like I welded the axels to the frame and have no shocks.

    How much power are we talking about with a T3/04 turbo that it wouldn't have traction in 1st, 2nd and part of 3rd? I like the sounds of T3 60 trim.

    I luckilly enough know a welder who can do work for free for me, which means custom mandrel bent pipe for just the cost of the pipe. Is there something I could fabricate the turbo manifold from? Like I said, I have a welder and a full machine shop for free.... B)

    How high of a rev can a LS hold all day long? I don't think that with the B18 I would rev it high all day long, but I do with the D16 right now... :ph34r:

    Let's break this down into prices, and websites.. What am I looking at here?
    Thanks all, and like I said, at least right now its just a hope. I may not be doing this, but its fun window shopping (of sorts)

    Sorry Adam, this would be just 1 person getting hired, me. <_<
     
  9. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    i wouldn't suggest having your buddy weld you a manifold. it will probably crack. while i dont doubt his skill, the R&D of design is missing.

    the sols4-disk is ok, but its not the best. at a minimum, i say get some brembo blank slots and hawk HP+ pads for the front.

    now, when i say t3 60-1, that is NOT a t3 60 trim. theres a big difference. how much power? 68psi will do it. it just spools too quick. its nothing, and then everything. with the bigger turbo of the 60-1, once it starts boosting, it gradually, but quickly, makes more psi.

    suspension, if you want to stay near stock... i don't understand. holy body roll batman. that, and it will eat a lot of your power on launch too- if the rear dumps in on a hard launch, the weigh transfer comes right off your front wheels... bye bye traction.

    i wouldn't rev an LS over 7 now and then, and 6000 all day long. the valve springs are real weak- you will float and go boom.
    I pieced together an LS head with turbo cams from crower, crower inner/outer/retianers, ferrera valves, 3 angle, port flow port job for under $700 including a head. thats the price of a bone stock vtec head. this setup will hold 10k peak, and 9k all year long.

    you can't beat LS prices... and thats why i chose it. I can have the best, for the price of stock on a vtec motor. fuck that fuel economy bullshit.
     
  10. ALLJDM

    ALLJDM Senior Member

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    John,

    lately, I have began to really like my CIVIC hatchback. I really wanted to sell it and get a super nice car (LEXUS ETC) but I have been bitten by the Honda/Acura bug.

    I have a friend that bought a wrecked DEL SOL VTEC and transplanted the engine into his hatchback (the sol was totalled) I do believe that he ran 12.9~ sec in the 1/4. That was his fastest time. My point is, you can use your existing motor (b16a3 I do believe) and just put some regular bolt ons.
    Don't go turbo this is what I would do:

    Suspension: I would either go TEIN coilovers, or neuspeed springs (2.5" drop) and Koni adjustable shocks. Great ride for the money.

    Engine: Civic Type R cam (intake) integra type R exhaust cam, cam gears (AEM, Skunk2, or SPOON-i prefer spoon), skunk2 intake manifold, JDM ITR 4-1 header, apex-i N1 exhaust/world sport, valves (high compression skunk2) valve springs, skunk2 retainers, and maybe a chipped ECU

    Brakes: the disc brakes for the sol are good. I would get some aftermarket brake rotors (cross drilled), maybe some steel braided brake lines, AEM brake pads, of course you can't forget the spoon wrist bands :)

    Wheels: you can go rota, VOLK, racing hart, enkei (ask brian about his new set) or you can get some white VOLK TE-37 with tires for something like $1,500 contact
    PISSEDOFFSOL.

    WEIGHT of course you'll probably want to reduce some weight from the car. Racing seats (maybe) gutting the car (a possibility).

    So i hope that helped you out. Good luck with the JOB
     
  11. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    hehe- thanks for the wheel plug jason :)
     
  12. zueke

    zueke Senior Member

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    Jason, Brian:
    Thanks very much for the info so far. Unfortunatly I just have the SI, so I only have a D16 Jason, which is why I wanted to do the LS swap.

    $700 for the head work, that sounds good! With the manifold, I understand your concerns Brian with the cracking of the manifold. When I was thinking about turbo'in the D16, I was considering doing the HF manifold conversion. Is there something similar you can do with the B series motors? I understand it might crack, but if it does all I have to do is have him fix it, which he would do.

    As far as the turbo itself, Brian, do you have some more documentation I could read on the turbo's you speak of? Although I think I understand what you are talking about, I really don't want to get in over my head.

    As far as the suspension goes, I was just saying I don't want something that will feel like there isn't ANY suspension. I just don't want to get a headache from going down a bumpy road and have to worry about my whole car vibrating every bolt loose from the road conditions. I understand that it won't feel like stock, which is fine, I just want to still have SOME shock absorbtion.

    Just out of curiosity Jason, could you PM me a quote on what you could get the TEIN coilovers, AEM brake pads, braided lines, cross drilled rotors, and rota Grids for shipped to 48840? (if you sell any/all of those)

    Again, I am not sure this will all go thru, but if it does, then I will be very happy.
     
  13. SolReaver

    SolReaver Senior Member

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    As far as motor choice- see sig.

    I was just driving in my del sol, with a b18b. Trust me, the 142 hp rating doesnt do the motor justice. It feels a lot more powerful than that cause it has immense torque. It really isnt too bad in a light car like a del sol.
    Driving in 1st at 3k rpm, if i mash the throttle the wheels break loose. In 2nd at 5-6K, if i floor it the wheels break loose. Shifting from 1st to 2nd at redline spins the tires REAL hard, i would say a half of a second burnout.

    If get my tranny fluid filled tonight, im gonna call up my friend with a sir2 swapped ek hatch, i want to race him. I will let you guys know how it turns out...
     
  14. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    yup $700- and that INCLUDES the head. not just the parts.

    as for b-series HF- cut thign, it doesn't work. the reason why thsoe work on the hf is bacuase the mani stops, and then its the cat. on every other b-series, the cat is below. if you run a regular manifold, the turbo will be towards the bottom of your motor- and your oil return wont have gravity to drip it back to the pan. its not a good idea.
    if you are a cheap as and want your friends to make you parts, i highly suggest you don't go turbo. Turbo + cheap ass = boom.

    suspension- don't be a wuss. RIDE in a car with REAL suspension- not some rice boy springs and shocks. its not as bad as many people make it out to be. as for SOME shock absorption- dude- the high quality shit absorbs 3x the amount of what your stock stuff would.

    AEM pads and cross driled rotors suck. cross drilled offer NO benefit in braking whatsoever.
    Brembo slots, hawk HP+ pads up front, stock rear, you will stop on a dime.
    90% of heat soak which leads to fade comes from the PAD, not the rotor. keep that in mind.
     
  15. vtecsir1

    vtecsir1 Senior Member

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    hawk pads are the shit!!
     
  16. Akirazian

    Akirazian Banned

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    just get it turbocharged. hehe.. hit at least 13's hahaha
     
  17. zueke

    zueke Senior Member

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    If I might ask just a couple more questions Brian, what products did you get where to build your head for $700 including the price of the head? Also, with the head work, that specific turbo (the t3, 60-1), endyn turbo roller wave pistons, crower rods, and a good intercooler, what type of PSI setting am I looking at for my wastegate? Sorta related, is there a good blow off valve that I should use?
     
  18. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    well, i bought it used... basically, i got the port job + head free buy buying it used.

    crower inner/outer valve springs
    crower Ti retainers
    fererra valves, 3 angled
    portflow port/polish

    I've added crower 6xxxxT cams (i forget the number) to the package as well- so for under a grand, i have a top of the line head, with the best cams for the setup out there. toda spec B's cost more. :p LS/T owns :p

    portflow is the shit. http://portflow.com
    http://crower.com
    i've yet to find fererra's site
    i dont have real turbo info... compressor maps are impossible to read. you jsut have to kinda know what works. for a long time i was so into the t3/t04e for my setup. but i really dont think its the best setup at all for a fwd car.
    wastegate... just get a .45 bar spring.... you can boost double your spring rate easily on a tial 35mm
    double plus a couple on a 35mm HP
    double + 4-5 on a 40mm
    and a lot on a 46mm
    I say get the 35mm HP
    ohh, look- I'm selling one :p </shameless plug>
    I'm get a 46mm. its huge. with the t3 60-1, the 35HP will be fine.
    BOv, use blitz, or greddy type R
    hks SSQ sound cool, but i hear they aren't reliable.
    maxrev also makes a decent one, as does tial
     
  19. zueke

    zueke Senior Member

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    Ferrea's website is http://www.ferrea.com/

    This job is looking more and more like I am going to get it. It's gonna start off at only like 300 or so per week, and work up in a few months to 1000. The really cool thing is that the person who wants to hire me is gonna help me build this project, and is helping financially out with the parts. :huh:
    (He has an 11 sec Rustang)

    Here is a new set of questions..
    1) Regarding intercoolers, should I check out any special name brand, or just get one custom made?
    2) Other than the water pump and timing belt what brand gaskets should I get? Will new OEM gaskets hold up if I am running 450 hp?
    3) Mount inserts.. who makes the best?
    4) Should I worry about temperatures under the hood for eventually getting a CF hood? (Will the CF burst into flames or warp?)
    5) Fuel pumps.. I think I would have to upgrade, so what's the best for me to get knowing my plans?
    6) Do you really think that .45bar will be enough to get into the 11's with that turbo?
     
  20. AzntaggeR

    AzntaggeR Junior Member

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    yea i would go wit the b18 too....also you should replace the internals such as pistons, rods, valves, etc....but to make a car go that fast you have to make a lot of sacrifices too =\
     
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