i wanted to put a type-r head on my 99 ls but my friend said there isn't much all that big of a diffrence than gsr head except for the cam and springs or something. he said u can get the gsr head and put the type-r cams and and some nice valves and it will be pretty much the same thing. is that really true and how much would a type-r head cost compared to the gsr
diffrence between type-r head and gsr
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the type-r head has a little bit better flow. i would personally do ctr stuff into the gsr head. but then again, i'm just a ctr fan.
but to answer your question, yes, they would be very similar. The type R head will cost you a couple hundred dollars more, but they are a lot harder to find. if i was you i would consider a b16 head with ctr cams. the head is cheaper, but the cams are a little more. not by much though. it's worth it.
but to answer your question, yes, they would be very similar. The type R head will cost you a couple hundred dollars more, but they are a lot harder to find. if i was you i would consider a b16 head with ctr cams. the head is cheaper, but the cams are a little more. not by much though. it's worth it.
The Type R head is a B16 Head that is lightly ported, with a better valvetrain and more agressive cams to make use of the extra flow, and in 96-97 Specs, hand built and ported. By 98, they had ultra-precise automated systems doing the porting which were miles better than the previous spec. Still hand assembled though.
If you want to do porting work later, go for a B16 head and save some cash. The B18C5 heads are great the way they are, but are almost too far gone to get agressive with porting options. The GSR head is honestly not worth the money because as much as anyone tells you, the GSR head does NOT flow that much better than a B16A head (if at all) to justify the usual price diffrence. They are meant to flow the same HP, and the only reason the GSR is a faster engine is because of 1.8L>1.6L.
My two cents, go for a first gen B16A head for dirt-ass cheap, get a basic valve and porting job, have it re-decked, and try and find some used Skunk2 cams, and if you can fit it in there, an ITR or Skunk2 valvetrain + Intake manifold. I'll bet you you could pull that build off for the same price as a Type R head any day of the week. And it'll be 100303488x better than a Type R head.
If you want to do porting work later, go for a B16 head and save some cash. The B18C5 heads are great the way they are, but are almost too far gone to get agressive with porting options. The GSR head is honestly not worth the money because as much as anyone tells you, the GSR head does NOT flow that much better than a B16A head (if at all) to justify the usual price diffrence. They are meant to flow the same HP, and the only reason the GSR is a faster engine is because of 1.8L>1.6L.
My two cents, go for a first gen B16A head for dirt-ass cheap, get a basic valve and porting job, have it re-decked, and try and find some used Skunk2 cams, and if you can fit it in there, an ITR or Skunk2 valvetrain + Intake manifold. I'll bet you you could pull that build off for the same price as a Type R head any day of the week. And it'll be 100303488x better than a Type R head.
vtecsir1
Senior Member
god damnit can you people not read? it has nothing to do with flow at this pooint! the b16 and gsr head flow so similar its a wash out, the power difference is that the gsr has squished combustion chambers bumping up compression slightly. so if you tested a block with a b16 head and then switch it with a gsr head you would make more power with the gsr. do you understand this now? dont try to talk about manifolds because we arent discussing that.
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i was simply stating my point of view when it comes to budget. if he wants the best bang for the buck, the b16 head is going to be cheaper than a gsr or type r head. then slap some cams in it and it will give a lot better results. in short, dont' waste money on trying to buy a type r head. by a cheaper head and get better cams.
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god damnit can you people not read? it has nothing to do with flow at this pooint! the b16 and gsr head flow so similar its a wash out, the power difference is that the gsr has squished combustion chambers bumping up compression slightly. so if you tested a block with a b16 head and then switch it with a gsr head you would make more power with the gsr. do you understand this now? dont try to talk about manifolds because we arent discussing that.
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Dude, you're talking about an increase in compression that one could achieve by milling a B16A head by a bit. If I were to be in his position, I'd be more worried about the flow characteristics of the head, and price rather than compression ratios which I'd be controlling by my choice of piston anyways.
And please, not to start an arguement, don't act like you're just soooo tired of having to shovel this info out against your will. We're having a conversation here. If this information is just so frustrating for you to say, then swallow your shit for a second, and come back and post when you can add in a positive manner, and not talk to me about shit I'm well aware of like I'm 12 years old.
vtecsir1
Senior Member
obviously your not well aware of it, you will never achieve the same compression the gsr head can give you. just mill the head, well just mill the gsr head then and you have added more than the b16 head. this debate has been argued to death and it has been proven that the flow is pretty much identical between the two but the advantage goes to the gsr stock just like i said in my post. now if you want to weld the combustion chambers like larry at endyn thats a different story. i feel more power can be made with the gsr head and there really is no price difference if you look around like i showed with my head purchase. this is common knowledge in the honda world.
for the price of a type r head i could easily build my gsr head to be much more powerful.
spending the same amount of money i believe i can make more power than a b16 head.
go by what you believe, i went by what i researched for several years.
for the price of a type r head i could easily build my gsr head to be much more powerful.
spending the same amount of money i believe i can make more power than a b16 head.
go by what you believe, i went by what i researched for several years.
ok good information just what i have been waiting for. but another question i have is, which cam is better, the ctr or itr. i heard teh ctr is bigger and has more lift or something. so what do u think??????? and how much would a B16A head cost and is it legal (can i smog it)
Well, as much as you think I'm not aware of your arguement, I am, and just like you, reached my own decision. It'd been my personal experience in the past while doing my years of research, that a first-gen B16A head WAS about half the price of a GSR head, on average, and made the same power as a GSR head. If this is changed, then ok ... I havent looked in a while.
Don't get me wrong dude, I'm not trying to say you're wrong, we're just on opposing sides of an, as you said, "argued to death" topic, where it could go either way. Just remember though, higher compression doesn't always mean better ... there are way too many other factors involved, which I'm sure you're fully aware of. So whatever ... we're both right in our own way.
As for which cams? I can't really go deep into that one, but I have heard the CTR cams are more agressive than the ITR's ... why? Not sure, haven't looked into it.
vtecsir1
Senior Member
ctr and itr cams are the same from the 2000 and up itr. itr cams under 2000 are less aggressive than ctr. just get ctr cams to be safe. if you are staying all motor a lot of guys are going with a ctr intake cam and a 92-93 gsr exhaust cam if you can find one. i my self will just be going with a ctr intake side and a 2000 gsr exhaust side.
vtecsir1
Senior Member
well the duration on the exhaust side isnt worth buying a ctr cam, the difference just isnt worth the money. now if you are looking for serious power gains go with a skunk2 set or similar set of cams that are proven to make power. skunk 2 stage 1 dont make very much more power than ctr cams for the money.
a vtech head won't really do anything for you. vteC will. yes, you need a b16 or b18c head. it can be a type r head or gsr head. a d series head will NOT work. Neither will an H22 head or K20 head. you need to figure out your goals and intentions on what you are going to do to be able to get good help.
well what do u mean goals??? i want to go ls vtec with the ctr cams and some really nice valves haven't decided which ones r pretty good. and then i'm not sure if i have to change the springs or not if i do i might as well go with the ctr springs or type-r which ever is better and of course port and poloish the head and i'm looking for at least 200 hp with an intake and full comptech exhaust system. and yes some type-r piston cuz they has some nice lubrecation. the stock ls block
