Digging up Turbo Vs Superchargers

[Capt. Orygun]

So I was speaking to a friend of mine, who's a mechanic and one time amateur stock car racer. He's the type of person who's forgotton more about Cars then we could every possibly know.

Anyways we were talking about forced induction, and he's completely behind SC over turbo. His arguement was that the fundemental difference between the two was in how they generated power, everything else being the same (size, etc), the SC would out perform the turbo. He went on to talk about how SC air is cooler as it is not chambered right next to exhaust gasses, the availability of air to air intercoolers for SC'ers, and basicaly stated that Turbocharging is more popular thing, then a better thing.

Anyone have a logical rebuttle?

 

[posol]

yeah, he's wrong.

hes stuck in the 60s on 350's.

nearly all the fastest cars- import or domestic (running on GAS) are runnign turbos. even mustangs... camaros, buick 3.8's, and our hondas.

sc's make too much heat, and simply aren't nearly as efficient as a turbo is.

 

[K2e2vin]

even the torque monsters, pull tractors, run turbo.

 

[BigJ]

I'm really interested in this discussion. Explain to me why a Aftercooled vortec can put down 270 on a b16a, and not many bolt on turbos can get anywhere near that.

ANd yeah, I want to hear logic, not this, its popular, everyone does it bs.

Because if you actually look down the line, a 671 blown 350 is going to smoke, a t-61 turboed 350, or am I wrong?

 

[K2e2vin]

after cooled supercharger--boosts torque all through powerband.

turbo kit--air-air intercooler(not air/liquid like vortech's), boosts mid.

btw for the price of the vortech kit you can get a 400hp turbo kit from xs-engineering for b16a.

 

[BigJ]

There is no logic in what you said. I'm talking dynamics, not what you can buy.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

exaclty, I want to hear something that will explain this beyond personal testimony and popular opinion. Turbo's are cheaper, fine. But that's not the point here.

 

[K2e2vin]

Originally posted by Slammed89Integra@Jan 1 2004, 09:22 PM
There is no logic in what you said. I'm talking dynamics, not what you can buy.

i am responding to the comment about the vortech putting down more than most turbo kits.

 

[mwvnos]

....endless tuning and power capabilities with a turbo, you can boost to the point to blow any motor you can build. superchargers have a limit really if you think about it. biggest pulley iv seen is 18 psi for a SC and last time i checked, turbos will bolw that outta the water. BIG power is made from turbos. goes back to the saying "blowers blow and turbos rule" granted that SCs have better responce but ill still "walk the dog" on you when im pushing 25psi on a t66....turbos are my vote and thats the right vote....IMO

 

[K2e2vin]

the only difference is power supply. with a turbo you will usually have lag, but with the supercharger this is non-existant. but with the supercharger and increased boost, you sacrifice response(b/c added drag of the supercharger). most autoX aim for engine response(and why the Mine's GT-R is so fast in autoX).

 

[K2e2vin]

Originally posted by mwvnos@Jan 1 2004, 09:39 PM
....endless tuning and power capabilities with a turbo, you can boost to the point to blow any motor you can build. superchargers have a limit really if you think about it. biggest pulley iv seen is 18 psi for a SC and last time i checked, turbos will bolw that outta the water. BIG power is made from turbos. goes back to the saying "blowers blow and turbos rule" granted that SCs have better responce but ill still "walk the dog" on you when im pushing 25psi on a t66....turbos are my vote and thats the right vote....IMO

this is myth. you can increase crank pulley diameter and decrease sc pulley and have more boost. turbos are limited b/c they still need exhaust gas. the highest boost ive seen from a turbo is about 50psi, after that it will probally surge, you can go higher with a sc through gearing. sc's dont have as great as response as turbos.

 

[Capt. Orygun]

Originally posted by K2e2vin@Jan 1 2004, 09:39 PM
the only difference is power supply. with a turbo you will usually have lag, but with the supercharger this is non-existant. but with the supercharger and increased boost, you sacrifice response(b/c added drag of the supercharger). most autoX aim for engine response(and why the Mine's GT-R is so fast in autoX).

So the power power you push out of a SC the worse throlle response is, is that right?

 

[K2e2vin]

Originally posted by Silverchild79@Jan 1 2004, 09:57 PM
So the power power you push out of a SC the worse throlle response is, is that right?

yes in most cases, if not all.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by K2e2vin@Jan 1 2004, 06:42 PM
sc's dont have as great as response as turbos.

WHOA!

EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.

ARe you talking centrifugal or roots type? Centrifugal is pretty much a turbo compressor side attached to a spindal, just lik the exhaust housing on a turbo. I'm not sure about a roots type though. I thought a roots type was more along the lines, as a steady power curve in increase, and not as much as spooling figure.

And yeah to an above comment, psi isn't everything, cfm is where its at.

 

[K2e2vin]

Originally posted by Slammed89Integra+Jan 1 2004, 10:01 PM-->

K2e2vin

@Jan 1 2004, 06:42 PM
sc's dont have as great as response as turbos.

WHOA!

EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.

ARe you talking centrifugal or roots type? Centrifugal is pretty much a turbo compressor side attached to a spindal, just lik the exhaust housing on a turbo. I'm not sure about a roots type though. I thought a roots type was more along the lines, as a steady power curve in increase, and not as much as spooling figure.

And yeah to an above comment, psi isn't everything, cfm is where its at.

its more noticeable in roots-sc cars. heres why, you gun it, let off the throttle, but the sc is still trying to compress air, and then you gas it again but since the supercharger is "pre-loaded" it has to work a little bit harder. turbo--gun it, let off the gas, swoosh gas is redirected through wastegate and boost is let off by bov; engine sees no load, get back on the gas and since the turbo is already spinning but with no load, its sort of a clutch drop, but on the turbo. oh yeah the centrifugal sc has pretty good response if it has a bov(like the vortech kits).

cfm is for engine size(turbo selection), psi is for boost.

 

[mwvnos]

Originally posted by K2e2vin+Jan 1 2004, 09:42 PM-->

mwvnos

@Jan 1 2004, 09:39 PM
....endless tuning and power capabilities with a turbo, you can boost to the point to blow any motor you can build. superchargers have a limit really if you think about it. biggest pulley iv seen is 18 psi for a SC and last time i checked, turbos will bolw that outta the water. BIG power is made from turbos. goes back to the saying "blowers blow and turbos rule" granted that SCs have better responce but ill still "walk the dog" on you when im pushing 25psi on a t66....turbos are my vote and thats the right vote....IMO

this is myth. you can increase crank pulley diameter and decrease sc pulley and have more boost. turbos are limited b/c they still need exhaust gas. the highest boost ive seen from a turbo is about 50psi, after that it will probally surge, you can go higher with a sc through gearing. sc's dont have as great as response as turbos.

oh bullshit....you may can get those "gears" but iv never seen them. lol id liek to see 50 psi out of a JRSC lol....what are all the IDRC racers running?...turbo, how bout the teg funny car that was topic a few days ago, it had 2 turbos on it. im going to go with them on the turbo cuz i think they know a bit more then we do. turbos have lag, but racing is high rpms where there is no lag. SCs dont have lag really. all i know is i can build one hell of a turbo honda motor that will blast any supercharged honda motor out there....seriously, i just dont have the money lol....

 

[K2e2vin]

most races(drag) win from the launch. hmmm... the teg funny car has no real class, it was built just as a "show" purpose. look up gearing and simple machines; pulley.

btw did you read what i said about engine response?

 

[mwvnos]

yea launch...get fucking huge slicks and launch at high ass rpm so you load the turbo and have full boost off the line...it doesnt matter if it has a class....it beats all so i guess that makes it superior....

 

[K2e2vin]

Originally posted by mwvnos@Jan 1 2004, 10:21 PM
yea launch...get fucking huge slicks and launch at high ass rpm so you load the turbo and have full boost off the line...it doesnt matter if it has a class....it beats all so i guess that makes it superior....

with that much torque coming out of a turboed +4l motor? try it.

 

[mwvnos]

man your talkin about 50 psi outta a SC....launching with tough axles, diff, and hubs is no prob....what you think they do'?....launch like your daily driving at a redlight?....if they make shit to boost a SC like that then they make what you need to get it to the ground....i still stand turbos rule the track...