Enjoy The Draft

[totalburnout]

My, my, my...dont we just live in a dream world? You make up with your undies wet this morning, son?


Also don't ever call me ignorant when I've backed up every statement I've made whilst you havent backed up one of yours. Work on reading comprehension as well. I stated it in the form that we thought the Afghanis more specifically a tiny middle eastern tribe known as the Al queda would ever be able to do anything like what was done on 9/11. We completely underestimated al queda and I was making reference and providing a example, not stating the Iraq flew a plane into the WTC on 9/11, although there are al queda and other terrorist trips in Iraq as well as Afghanistan.

 

[DarkHand]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Nov 3 2004, 01:24 PM
If you're so anti-war you probably shouldnt have voted for Kerry either.

The troop-starvation idea was just a wacky way to get Bush's war stopped. Now that we're in there already I'm all for finishing it. In fact if I had it my way I'd rather see MORE troops go there to finish the job completely and utterly in a short amount of time rather than a few troops mis-commanded for years. We're already there, so do Shock and Awe 2, finish up, get out. It was a protest against going there in the first place and the current leadership, not anti-war in general.

 

[reckedracing]

if you voted for bush you are ignorant

and ask me for backup on anything i've said... it can be provided...

and i do believe our intelligence community ignored the memos regarding the possibility of planes being used as missles...

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by DarkHand+Nov 3 2004, 03:28 PM-->

New2TheCarScene

@Nov 3 2004, 01:24 PM
If you're so anti-war you probably shouldnt have voted for Kerry either.

The troop-starvation idea was just a wacky way to get Bush's war stopped. Now that we're in there already I'm all for finishing it. In fact if I had it my way I'd rather see MORE troops go there to finish the job completely and utterly in a short amount of time rather than a few troops mis-commanded for years. We're already there, so do Shock and Awe 2, finish up, get out. It was a protest against going there in the first place and the current leadership, not anti-war in general.

[post=411382]Quoted post[/post]​

Just like North Korea, there will be peace troops and fighting there for a long while.

 

[brc80]

Originally posted by reckedracing@Nov 3 2004, 12:34 PM
if you voted for bush you are ignorant

and ask me for backup on anything i've said... it can be provided...

and i do believe our intelligence community ignored the memos regarding the possibility of planes being used as missles...

[post=411389]Quoted post[/post]​

And the community was under the direction of the Clinton Administration. SO right there its not Bush's fault, nor is it anyone one persons fault. Thats the problem with this country, we're so busy trying to pass the buck nothing gets done. We need to get past the my way or the high way mindset and work togeather to make this country better.

Sorry for the last part, i know its a pipe dream but a man can dream cant he?

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by reckedracing@Nov 3 2004, 03:34 PM
if you voted for bush you are ignorant

and ask me for backup on anything i've said... it can be provided...

and i do believe our intelligence community ignored the memos regarding the possibility of planes being used as missles...

[post=411389]Quoted post[/post]​

Okay Mr. 16 year old know it all but cant back up a thing he says. Ask your mom or teacher for the facts now.

 

[reckedracing]

Okay Mr. 16 year old know it all but cant back up a thing he says. Ask your mom or teacher for the facts now.

lmao, you know nothing about me

 

[DarkHand]

This thread staying non-personal and strictly politics related has been a really good achievement. Let's keep it that way.

 

[posol]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Nov 3 2004, 02:04 PM

B do you know that most of the men in the services are Republican and if a Republican were not re-elected than many would have not re-enlisted? Why would a soldier want to re-enlist with a Commander in Chief that he does not agree with? The answer is he wouldn't.

[post=411308]Quoted post[/post]​

hardly. most people in the armed forces that fight/die in the front line (ie, soldiers, not lt's and up) are democrats.

 

[posol]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene+Nov 3 2004, 02:12 PM-->

reckedracing

@Nov 3 2004, 01:34 PM
the bill was introduced by democrats to prove a point that if the rich want us to go to war then their children should be made to fight and die just like poor peoples children...

and before you rule out a draft, just think how much harm bush has done in the first 4 years, and now try and guarantee there won;t be a draft in the next 4 years...

[post=411286]Quoted post[/post]​

Seriously, you should understand the facts before you hail Kerry as your next messiah.

I know that most highschool/college age "kids" tend to be more liberal and tree huggers, but thats mostly because they've been taught all their life by left wing teachers and are ignorant to all the facts. They simply have selective hearing. I re-iterate this fact when i debate politics with my girlfriends roomate who's retorts are never backed up by facts. All my younger friends who are liberal can never have a debate with me, short of saying "Bush is an idiot, he's a terrible president" but cannot seem to back this up by any facts. Is this simply because you're regurgitating what the media or a teacher has told you? Its easy to ignorantly state things without first having evidence to prove your statement. If you were in a real political debate or seminar class and did not have evidence to prove your argument you would be laughed out of town.

Its funny that my prof. for my honors history course on the ancient world was stumped when most of the students hailed Bush last night. He said "When I was in college, every student was liberal and nearly all voted democrat. It dumbfounds me that in todays day and age that college age students would vote republican. Unfortunately the democrats of current times have become such extremists and left winged that I can no longer relate." Its something powerful when a liberal teacher tells you how they cannot even relate to the democrats of current times, considering its always been in the union's best interest to vote democrat. This is a very educated man that gives lectures worldwide and is known to be a very educated scholar. Powerful stuff.

[post=411315]Quoted post[/post]​

futher proof that america needs to take their head out of the party an put it into the man.

 

[posol]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Nov 3 2004, 02:24 PM

Kerry has clearly stated that it was his position that he would have gone to war with the help of the UN. Unfortunately Bush asked for the help of the UN and they turned their nose at him.

[post=411326]Quoted post[/post]​

that's not how it happened at all.

try again.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by reckedracing@Nov 3 2004, 03:40 PM

Okay Mr. 16 year old know it all but cant back up a thing he says. Ask your mom or teacher for the facts now.

lmao, you know nothing about me

[post=411398]Quoted post[/post]​

You stated in another political argument that you're either a freshman in highschool or freshman in college, I believe highschool. You said how you were taking an econ course when I got into a discussion about trickle down economics with you and you admitted that you didnt know it all that you were just beginning your studies in economics. From that and the fact that you cannot backup your debate with evidence whatsoever I conclude that you probably are a freshman that stepped a little too far out into the deep end during this conversation. You're obviously about ready to drown.

By all means I'll have a debate with you about politics if you can provide some evidence, but I'm no longer going to waste my time if you can't do so. Even in a highschool or college course you have to provide evidence to your argument or you'll be laughed at of town. In my seminars if I didnt have sources to back up my argument I would get slaughtered alive, much to the likes of you.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by pissedoffsol+Nov 3 2004, 03:48 PM-->

New2TheCarScene

@Nov 3 2004, 02:24 PM

Kerry has clearly stated that it was his position that he would have gone to war with the help of the UN. Unfortunately Bush asked for the help of the UN and they turned their nose at him.

[post=411326]Quoted post[/post]​

that's not how it happened at all.

try again.

[post=411409]Quoted post[/post]​

I'm sorry to say Brian but that is the way it happened. Before Bush ever went to war he asked the United Nations for help, they voted and turned their nose up at him. This is obviously why everyone makes all the jokes about France and how they're a joke, because they voted against going to war. About the only supporters to the war were Tony Blair and England, Italy, and Germany was on the fence. While we were going in Iraq, we werent even sure if we would be allowed to use some of the airstrips over in the middle east and there was much publicized dicussion regarding this.

If you're talking about Kerry's position on the war, I heard it firsthand when I listened to the debate and heard Kerry talk in hindsight as usual. He said something along the lines of "president bush should not have went to war without the help of the UN. i would not go into war without the help of the UN."

 

[posol]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Nov 3 2004, 02:41 PM

So lets talk about North Korea because you seem to be all knowing. My grandfather was shot about 2mm shy of his heart in Korea during the Korean war. Its been a hotbed in Korea ever since Harry S. Truman (a democrat) got the US involved in Korea. We basically had our asses handed to us, Truman threatened to drop the atomic bomb on Korea but they didn't back down and it was just a meaningless threat for Truman so we hightailed it out of there. That world of shit that you're talking about in Korea was created by YOUR democrats, bet you didnt know that...did you?
http://www.koreanwar.com/ http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodi...l?index=T000387

you can't possibly compare the korean CONFLICT to the situation that exists there now. its been 50 years. technology has changed. times have changed. people are more money hungry now and they sold them nuce's.

About Sadaam and why he's a thread: Dating back to ancient times since the fall of the Roman Empire there's been a struggle between in the middle east, basically between the east versus west. Long story short after the fall of the empire, different parts of the world were cut off from each other and did not communicate. The islamic faith spread through much of the middle east meanwhile the christian faith was spreading in lower parts of the middle east. Much conflict and struggle because of the differences that were developed during this time lead to the conflict that we face in modern times. Basically the middle east is resentful of the west of christianity and of our wealth. This is more or less the reason between Sadaam and Osama for attacking the US.

bullshit.

First off, Sadaam NEVER attacked the US. we attcked him because we are alies with the Saudis and he was fuckign with oil supplies there and in Kuwait.

Osama is jelous of our money? LMMFAO! hes got more money than every member here combined.

You dont think its a big deal that Sadaam would do anything in his power to hurt the United States in anyway he could? Thats no big deal right? Well, I along with most other educated people see that its a rising problem and should be squashed before it developes into something that we cannot handle.

i don't think sudaam would even remotely care about us at all if daddy bushwacker didn't start shit with him in the first place.

As for China being able to make a joke out of the United States during current times, whats so bullshit about this? Foreign intelligence agencies steal from foreign government all the time, like China did with the plans for our nuclear warheads.

wrong again. plans were sold to china during clintons administration.

The difference is China completely made fools out of the US and now has better military means than we can possibly develope in the next 5-10years.

how, what, when, where, and why have we been made a fool out of china?
it never happened.

The US since it came to dominance has always been ahead of other nations in military means until current times where we lie second to China. You better believe if they ever get the idea to attack us, we're fucked.

also not true.
while they are one of the larger powers at this point, they are still no where near ready to launch an attack and live through the counter attack from the usa.

Bush lieing to the US? I already went over this point that I do believe judging by his actions that he 110% believed that there were weapons of mass destructions, apparently you can't come up with anything better than "he lied to us, get over it"

[post=411340]Quoted post[/post]​

and at the same time, he loses 400,000 tons of our own.

perhaps he should focus more on our shit, and less on others

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by pissedoffsol+Nov 3 2004, 03:46 PM-->

New2TheCarScene

@Nov 3 2004, 02:04 PM

B do you know that most of the men in the services are Republican and if a Republican were not re-elected than many would have not re-enlisted? Why would a soldier want to re-enlist with a Commander in Chief that he does not agree with? The answer is he wouldn't.

[post=411308]Quoted post[/post]​

hardly. most people in the armed forces that fight/die in the front line (ie, soldiers, not lt's and up) are democrats.

[post=411406]Quoted post[/post]​

False.

The armed services are predominately Republican. I come from a family of veterans, my friends family have veterans, all of which are Republicans. By no means does this prove that the military predominately Republican but from the horse's mouth and other sources comes the statement that they are predominately Republican. Why would they be democrats when most democrats are "tree huggers" and do not support war? All the 'war monger' presidents were normally Republicans for a reason. You can look it up if you'd like but you're wrong.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by pissedoffsol+Nov 3 2004, 03:47 PM-->

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Nov 3 2004, 02:12 PM
reckedracing

@Nov 3 2004, 01:34 PM
the bill was introduced by democrats to prove a point that if the rich want us to go to war then their children should be made to fight and die just like poor peoples children...

and before you rule out a draft, just think how much harm bush has done in the first 4 years, and now try and guarantee there won;t be a draft in the next 4 years...

[post=411286]Quoted post[/post]​

Seriously, you should understand the facts before you hail Kerry as your next messiah.

I know that most highschool/college age "kids" tend to be more liberal and tree huggers, but thats mostly because they've been taught all their life by left wing teachers and are ignorant to all the facts. They simply have selective hearing. I re-iterate this fact when i debate politics with my girlfriends roomate who's retorts are never backed up by facts. All my younger friends who are liberal can never have a debate with me, short of saying "Bush is an idiot, he's a terrible president" but cannot seem to back this up by any facts. Is this simply because you're regurgitating what the media or a teacher has told you? Its easy to ignorantly state things without first having evidence to prove your statement. If you were in a real political debate or seminar class and did not have evidence to prove your argument you would be laughed out of town.

Its funny that my prof. for my honors history course on the ancient world was stumped when most of the students hailed Bush last night. He said "When I was in college, every student was liberal and nearly all voted democrat. It dumbfounds me that in todays day and age that college age students would vote republican. Unfortunately the democrats of current times have become such extremists and left winged that I can no longer relate." Its something powerful when a liberal teacher tells you how they cannot even relate to the democrats of current times, considering its always been in the union's best interest to vote democrat. This is a very educated man that gives lectures worldwide and is known to be a very educated scholar. Powerful stuff.

[post=411315]Quoted post[/post]​

futher proof that america needs to take their head out of the party an put it into the man.

[post=411408]Quoted post[/post]​

This is true but from the blanketed statements I've heard you say about Republicans typically being bad presidents theres a lot of ignorance there. \

The best ticket would have a moderate Republican and a moderate Democrat on it. None of this complete left wing or right wing bullshit.

 

[SlushboxTeggy]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene+Nov 3 2004, 03:48 PM-->

reckedracing

@Nov 3 2004, 03:40 PM

Okay Mr. 16 year old know it all but cant back up a thing he says. Ask your mom or teacher for the facts now.

lmao, you know nothing about me

[post=411398]Quoted post[/post]​

You stated in another political argument that you're either a freshman in highschool or freshman in college, I believe highschool. You said how you were taking an econ course when I got into a discussion about trickle down economics with you and you admitted that you didnt know it all that you were just beginning your studies in economics. From that and the fact that you cannot backup your debate with evidence whatsoever I conclude that you probably are a freshman that stepped a little too far out into the deep end during this conversation. You're obviously about ready to drown.

By all means I'll have a debate with you about politics if you can provide some evidence, but I'm no longer going to waste my time if you can't do so. Even in a highschool or college course you have to provide evidence to your argument or you'll be laughed at of town. In my seminars if I didnt have sources to back up my argument I would get slaughtered alive, much to the likes of you.

[post=411410]Quoted post[/post]​

actually that was me that got lost in the econ discussion, not reckedracing and im the freshman in college taking econ classes. you should check old posts before assume. it just makes you look uninformed.

 

[posol]

Originally posted by New2TheCarScene@Nov 3 2004, 03:55 PM
I'm sorry to say Brian but that is the way it happened. Before Bush ever went to war he asked the United Nations for help, they voted and turned their nose up at him. This is obviously why everyone makes all the jokes about France and how they're a joke, because they voted against going to war. About the only supporters to the war were Tony Blair and England, Italy, and Germany was on the fence. While we were going in Iraq, we werent even sure if we would be allowed to use some of the airstrips over in the middle east and there was much publicized dicussion regarding this.

The way the UN works, is that it takes forever to get anything accomplished. that's what happens when you have 23432432 ideas and only 1 solution to all agree upon.

he asked, he got tired of waiting, and said fuck you UN, we don't need you.
He was arrogant and refused to wait. ya know, cuz getting the Afghanistans was so important that within a couple weeks we were on iraq and not one mention of afghanistan was brought back

If you're talking about Kerry's position on the war, I heard it firsthand when I listened to the debate and heard Kerry talk in hindsight as usual. He said something along the lines of "president bush should not have went to war without the help of the UN. i would not go into war without the help of the UN."

[post=411413]Quoted post[/post]​

and i wouldn't either. maybe not the "support" or "help" but the political head nod that its a good idea. look where we are right now. all of our alies are gone. bush got rated vilian of the year in a movie by britian. our country is a fucking joke dude. how do you not see this?

 

[totalburnout]

I don't have the time to go through all your statements right now because I have to go to work but regarding the first one that I read so far:

"you can't possibly compare the korean CONFLICT to the situation that exists there now. its been 50 years. technology has changed. times have changed. people are more money hungry now and they sold them nuce's."


You can possibly compare the korean conflict today with the one of the past, because it was never resolved. The north and south are still fighting for the same reasons, the north almost immediately took over the south as soon as we left and conflict has been there since. so theres a definate comparison.

 

[totalburnout]

Originally posted by pissedoffsol+Nov 3 2004, 03:59 PM-->

New2TheCarScene

@Nov 3 2004, 03:55 PM
I'm sorry to say Brian but that is the way it happened. Before Bush ever went to war he asked the United Nations for help, they voted and turned their nose up at him. This is obviously why everyone makes all the jokes about France and how they're a joke, because they voted against going to war. About the only supporters to the war were Tony Blair and England, Italy, and Germany was on the fence. While we were going in Iraq, we werent even sure if we would be allowed to use some of the airstrips over in the middle east and there was much publicized dicussion regarding this.

The way the UN works, is that it takes forever to get anything accomplished. that's what happens when you have 23432432 ideas and only 1 solution to all agree upon.

he asked, he got tired of waiting, and said fuck you UN, we don't need you.
He was arrogant and refused to wait. ya know, cuz getting the Afghanistans was so important that within a couple weeks we were on iraq and not one mention of afghanistan was brought back

If you're talking about Kerry's position on the war, I heard it firsthand when I listened to the debate and heard Kerry talk in hindsight as usual. He said something along the lines of "president bush should not have went to war without the help of the UN. i would not go into war without the help of the UN."

[post=411413]Quoted post[/post]​

and i wouldn't either. maybe not the "support" or "help" but the political head nod that its a good idea. look where we are right now. all of our alies are gone. bush got rated vilian of the year in a movie by britian. our country is a fucking joke dude. how do you not see this?

[post=411419]Quoted post[/post]​

And moore created a retarded half wit movie, what does that prove? alex baldwin said four years ago he'd leave the country if bush were elected. its just a liberal standpoint thats been there since theres been two parties. no biggy

And no bush didnt get tired of waiting, the vote was going against the war.