e's new car

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Until you want shit fixed under warranty... lol

that's the good thing about piggy backs vs ECU tunes, this doesn't change the ECU at all and it can be removed in 3 minutes like it was never there...Dinan is the only Tune you can buy that covers MFG Warranty but its $4000 vs $600
 
Well, if cars came tuned, there wouldn't be a market for that. OEMs should sell cars that perform
 
Well, if cars came tuned, there wouldn't be a market for that. OEMs should sell cars that perform

C'mon B, you're smarter than that lol. Manufacturers have guidelines they they need to stay in. You and I both know Consumer Tunability (Yeah I made that up lol) wouldn't allow them to stay within said guidelines.

That's like saying because my car came with Summer tires, I shouldn't put winter tires on them in the winter time.

Lol wut? That's not even close to being the same thing. I was referring to you "piggy-backing" the ECU.

Piggy backing the ECU does not only effect electronics. You piggy back your ecu to put out more power, the rear end isn't designed for that extra torque output, takes a shit, now you want it fixed under warranty.

That is exactly why Auto Manufacturers don't want people touching their vehicles. If I built something to handle certain tolerances and an owner goes outside those tolerances, why is it my responsibility to fix it on my dime?

All i'm saying is I don't blame manufacturers for going the direction their going because it's a business and it hurts the business when you have to spend money on things that weren't your fault. Sucks for us car enthusiast but I see the other side of the coin as well...
 
C'mon B, you're smarter than that lol. Manufacturers have guidelines they they need to stay in. You and I both know Consumer Tunability (Yeah I made that up lol) wouldn't allow them to stay within said guidelines.



Lol wut? That's not even close to being the same thing. I was referring to you "piggy-backing" the ECU.

Piggy backing the ECU does not only effect electronics. You piggy back your ecu to put out more power, the rear end isn't designed for that extra torque output, takes a shit, now you want it fixed under warranty.

That is exactly why Auto Manufacturers don't want people touching their vehicles. If I built something to handle certain tolerances and an owner goes outside those tolerances, why is it my responsibility to fix it on my dime?

All i'm saying is I don't blame manufacturers for going the direction their going because it's a business and it hurts the business when you have to spend money on things that weren't your fault. Sucks for us car enthusiast but I see the other side of the coin as well...
Why not leave it open for modification for when the warranty expires or for those who don't care about the warranty?

Manufactures have no problem denying warranty work when it is the cause of a suspected modification. Just log all the inputs and outputs, should be easy enough to go through that data and tell.
 
Why not leave it open for modification for when the warranty expires or for those who don't care about the warranty?

Manufactures have no problem denying warranty work when it is the cause of a suspected modification. Just log all the inputs and outputs, should be easy enough to go through that data and tell.
That's a LOT of data to go through. @B16RacerN2NR has a point; people will buy piggy back tuners, then lie when something breaks knowing that it was their own fault, and tell the dealership that they did nothing wrong, and the dealer needs to fix it. Or, the piggy back tuning will put extra stress on all the components of the car and the 1st owner will sell a ragged out car to an unsuspecting buyer, who then believes the manufacturer made a piece of shit car. This is the angle the manufacturers are coming from.

Their argument has some merit. However, I modified my car, and will continue to do so with future vehicles. I will be truthful about any modifications in order to help provide a better image for those who cannot leave well enough alone, ie myself.
 
That's a LOT of data to go through. @B16RacerN2NR has a point; people will buy piggy back tuners, then lie when something breaks knowing that it was their own fault, and tell the dealership that they did nothing wrong, and the dealer needs to fix it. Or, the piggy back tuning will put extra stress on all the components of the car and the 1st owner will sell a ragged out car to an unsuspecting buyer, who then believes the manufacturer made a piece of shit car. This is the angle the manufacturers are coming from.

Their argument has some merit. However, I modified my car, and will continue to do so with future vehicles. I will be truthful about any modifications in order to help provide a better image for those who cannot leave well enough alone, ie myself.
Oh, those poor car manufacturers... How many times does this actually happen? Few and far between..
 
Oh, those poor car manufacturers... How many times does this actually happen? Few and far between..

The ECU stuff I have seen quite a few times and each time, Mercedes-Benz has told us to go ahead and repair the vehicle. However, they do flag the vehicle in the Vehicle Master Inquiry and you can no longer do warranty work without their approval. Warranty is still valid, just needs an approval from MB.

This particular scenario we are talking about, you're right, doesn't happen often enough to hurt them but people modifying their vehicle and hiding/lying about it, only to end up having the vehicle fixed either through warranty or goodwill from the dealership, happens A LOT, and that is what really hurts.
 
The ECU stuff I have seen quite a few times and each time, Mercedes-Benz has told us to go ahead and repair the vehicle. However, they do flag the vehicle in the Vehicle Master Inquiry and you can no longer do warranty work without their approval. Warranty is still valid, just needs an approval from MB.

This particular scenario we are talking about, you're right, doesn't happen often enough to hurt them but people modifying their vehicle and hiding/lying about it, only to end up having the vehicle fixed either through warranty or goodwill from the dealership, happens A LOT, and that is what really hurts.

Hyundai has known pretty much since 2008 that people have been modifying their ECU. 95% of folks are still able to get engine and transmission warranty replacements in the case of failure, unless they SEE a bigger turbo. and it's 50/50 on an aftermarket intercooler. it can very by dealership. some people get turned away for a simple catch can while others who are fully bolted get their engines replaced (2012-13 was a VERY BAD YEAR for hyundai GDI engines, so they are very lenient) . hyundai recently put out a quiet bulletin for the early 13-mid-14 veloster turbo to upgrade the ROM to the 15 ROM. they do it during your oil change and put it on your service bill as an ECU logic update (free!). mine has been done but i honestly cannot tell a difference (i've also had my steering adjusted to the R-spec tune the electronic resistance is a little heavier) lots of folks have been getting their custom tunes wiped out because they just do it instead of letting folks know. this LSPI craze is nuts...
 
MFG'ers need to better match their equipment.

If you have injectors for 85 more ft/lb in there, people are going to take advantage of it.
If you have a clutch that can only take 8 more hp, people are going to ruin clutches when they take those gains.
ask me how i know. lol

If the OEMs spec the car to have 'similar limits', you'll see the tune market drop significantly. Guys like me who wish the flash came stock wouldn't flash if it came this way stock and that's all it could do. I'm not interested in upgrading turbo, injectors, inter cooler, tbe, etc.... I just want a turbo car that doesn't hit a power wall at 5500 rpm (that eats petrol) Instead, I have room on the injectors, room on the efficiency of the turbo, room in the engine strength to make a bit more power, and i can do it for $400 bucks, so why wouldn't I? and now i have a clutch that can hold it all too.

AND i gained 3 mpg.

If you put out a sports car, make it perform in all areas evenly not at the limit, but closer to it with an error pad.
 
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C'mon B, you're smarter than that lol. Manufacturers have guidelines they they need to stay in. You and I both know Consumer Tunability (Yeah I made that up lol) wouldn't allow them to stay within said guidelines.



Lol wut? That's not even close to being the same thing. I was referring to you "piggy-backing" the ECU.

Piggy backing the ECU does not only effect electronics. You piggy back your ecu to put out more power, the rear end isn't designed for that extra torque output, takes a shit, now you want it fixed under warranty.

That is exactly why Auto Manufacturers don't want people touching their vehicles. If I built something to handle certain tolerances and an owner goes outside those tolerances, why is it my responsibility to fix it on my dime?

All i'm saying is I don't blame manufacturers for going the direction their going because it's a business and it hurts the business when you have to spend money on things that weren't your fault. Sucks for us car enthusiast but I see the other side of the coin as well...

That's not necessary true that the car's parts can't handle the extra power. Just because they set the boost low, doesn't mean the rear end, clutch, engine internals or transmission can't handle more power than what the car comes with. And Tuners like Lingenfelter ,Hennessey, APR, GIAC ect... do a lot of R&D on these cars to determine what they can actually handle over long periods of time.

I see their point in a way, but how likely is it that whatever is wrong with your car is a result of the ECU Tune or Piggy Back? They often use that as the excuse to void your warranty when it was never the cause.
 
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