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F22xx block with h23 head

Discussion in 'HYBRID -> BA-BB /CA-CD' started by d112crzy, Sep 13, 2006.

  1. d112crzy

    d112crzy im not a n0ob, trust me

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    I am tired of people saying how its not possible and how it is not worth the money and blah blah blah.

    well, guess what, it is possible and it is worth the money, especially if you are going from the f22a1 or f22b2.

    this DIY is from WikkedV16 from CB7Tuner.com - 4th Generation Accord Online Community, the thread is here:
    CB7Tuner Forums - DIY request on H23 head swap

    this is for the F22Ax block with an h23 head. Now, it is pretty much the same for F22B2's. I'm not sure about F22B1 since it has vtec, but im pretty sure it WILL swap on.

    If you fuck anything up, thats you're own fault, dont come complaining to me or Wikked.


     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2006
  2. ef8

    ef8 Junior Member

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    What kind of gains can be expected from this?HP?TQ?
     
  3. d112crzy

    d112crzy im not a n0ob, trust me

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    should be about the same as a stock h23. it depends on which ecu you use. if you use the p14 or p39, its gona run strong, but not its strongest. a chipped and tuned ecu would be best.

    its gona have a lot more umph, but dont be surprised if it doesnt keep up with h23's. h23's still have higher compression a more displacement. the head does NOT affect the compression ratio. it will still remain at 8.8cr.
     
  4. pubes2942

    pubes2942 New Member

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    I could have sworn that the F22 has the same block dimensions as the H23. Its supposed to be related as a JDM version of the H23...
     
  5. tab

    tab Super Moderator

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    I'm not convinced. A honda headgasket is $80. You still have to change ECU's, and rewire your harness. An H23 can be found for $500, easy. Now, what is your time worth for a half ass engine with no knock sensor, that PROBABLY makes less power than a stock H23?

    You'll save a few bucks, sure. You'll also have more hassle.

    I tell people it is not worth their time or money, because it is true. Changing the cam on your F22 is cheaper and easier than a head swap.

    That being said, I'm glad you enjoy doing the work, and hope you enjoy the car after the work is performed.
     
  6. 4thGenLude

    4thGenLude New Member

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    The idea of combining the 2 different engines is a great idea when you look deep down at the differences, you are actually taking the best of two worlds.

    One of the biggest complaints about H blocks is the FRM sleeves and also good H blocks are getting harder to come by (ie. high cost), where as F blocks are a dime a dozen at any local junk yard and already have cast iron sleeves. Also if you are doing a turbo build, the F22A is already at a low 8.8:1 compression, good place to be for boost.

    Then there is the strengths of the much higfher flowwing and tunable DOHC head, weather you chose H22 or H23 you are just going to see significant gains. Not to mention H heads are alot eaisier to find then good blocks.

    So if you really look at it think of it as getting a sleeved block without the cost, and once you have done the work the first time, now you can cheaply and eaisly get a replacement lower end.

    Just my opinion.

    And yes I am in process of rebuilding a H23 head to stick on my F22 block.;)
     
  7. d112crzy

    d112crzy im not a n0ob, trust me

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    thank you. you are right one the ball. finally, someone who knows what they are talking about. what other forums are you on?

    anyways, x2 on what he said.

    It will only be worth it if you get the parts for cheap, which now in days, heads are pretty cheap, just kinda hard to come by. Just recently, on cb7tuner, ive seen a few complete h23 heads go for less than 150shipped. If you're spending more than 500 for this swap, you're not looking hard enough for the parts.

    yes, an h23 can be had for about 500, but they arent as boost friendly as an f22 block, as 4thgen mentioned.

    reliability will NOT be an issue if everything is done right. an f22/h23 is nothing more than an f22b dohc engine. the head is the same, the difference between the two engines is the compression, which the f22b gets the compression from the pistons, NOT the head as many think.

    the power gains are a lot, especially if going from an f22a1 or f22b2. The best gains will be had if tuned of course, but very good gains can be had if you use a p39 or p14 ecu. and if you have atleast some mechanical abilities, then this swap would be a breeze. the hardest part would be lifting the head and intake manifold assembly off and putting it back on.
     
  8. 4thGenLude

    4thGenLude New Member

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    None at this point, but after reading several years of not having the ability (Time, Money, ect..) I am getting back into SC building and tuning. The first major swap I did was going on 10+ years ago when I took and built a NA H22A1 for a friend abd built it to 270+ WHP and shoved it into a 86 CRX. That car was pulling 11s at ATCO NJ. Since then I had to become a grown up and let other priorities take over. Now I am married to a great woman who actually supports the idea of getting back into this, oh and did I mention she loves drift racing and actually helps me with the work along with my 9 year old step-son:D . So about 9 months ago I picked up what has always been my favorite Honda, the 4th Generation Prelude (Love the body style and the dash) and am doing a full build on the vehicle, which is also my daily driver.

    Anyways, just as you said, for those of us with large bugets to do our engine builds this is a perfect little marraige. How much is it to get a H22/23 block sleeved?? From what I have seen that costs somewhere around $500 just for the sleeves, not to mention the cost of the block in the first place, which again from what I have seen on FleBay, most of the H22s seem to go for $1K+. Most of us who are really into streaching out our Hondas would probably have a chipped ECU or some other form to be able to tune, anyways, I am in process of figuing out which way I am going to go for a re-programmable EMS, buy or build my own. Not to mention there is a finite number of H blocks out there, I think there were more than 50 times then number of F blocks made as H blocks, simple laws of supply and demand kick in there.

    Is there anyone out there from the Northern VA area who can point me towards a good machine shop in the area?


    Many thanks goto PirateMcFred, prelittlelude, and Sam1am26 for thier early work on these Hybrids.
     
  9. Turbo&Auto

    Turbo&Auto Nick Go FAST!!

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    I was contemplating a swap in my accord now that the motor seems toasted. I think I'll pull the F22 though and buy a H23 to swap onto it. I planned on rebuilding it anyway so now I'll make it even bigger and better :) Thanks for the info!!!!

    Do you know if the H23 exhaust pattern is the same as a F22? I just had a ramhorn made for my F22 and would hate to have to buy another one now :(
     
  10. d112crzy

    d112crzy im not a n0ob, trust me

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    h23/f22b dohc/f22a are all the same exhaust patterns.

    an 4thGen, I'm glad that you have such a loving wife that supports what you love doing. I hope my gf converts, lol. As of now, she "supports" me, but not really.

    anyways, you should join cb7tuner.com. its a forum for all cb7's. It's an alright forum, it has its HUGE share of noobs, but there are true enthusiasts there also.
     
  11. tab

    tab Super Moderator

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    OK.

    You didn't mention that you wanted sleeves for boost. That is a different purpose altogether. At any rate, a DOHC F22B is pretty much what you are after. I just like to skip extra work. Call me lazy. I fix everything myself, but I don't try to make extra work. You see, my time is valuable. I can make $1500 dollars painting a truck that will only take me a few days worth of work. Skills=money. I am always budget conscious, but time is just as important.

    As mentioned, if you love the work, then congrats and enjoy it.
     
  12. d112crzy

    d112crzy im not a n0ob, trust me

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    what? when did I say anything about sleeves or boost?

    if i did, i dont remember and dont really feel like scrolling up to read my essay.:p
     
  13. fallen_racing

    fallen_racing New Member

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    please get back to me

    with the h23 crankshaft fit in the f22
     
  14. boostedf22

    boostedf22 dis is why im not

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    check the date before posting :newbie:

    But if your asking will the h23 crank fit in the f22, they bolt right in, just have to get h23 rods. h22 crank is better.
     
  15. Newhondaguy15401

    Newhondaguy15401 New Member

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    I need help with my h23/f22 build

    Alright I got a f22 bottom all oem and a h23 top. Everything is aftermarket but my heads. I cant get the balancer bolt to fit...any ideas? I have spent countless hours on this and i am gettin to wonder if it is worth the hassle. I got to get some ideas I have other parts like the chain pain wont fit im not to concerned with that but still want it right. Also got more issues but ill take them one at a time.
     
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