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fmu

Discussion in 'Forced Induction' started by paki, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. paki

    paki Junior Member

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    i recently purchased a turbo kit which contained a garrett gt28 turbo n internal wastegate set at about 5.5 psi, e.l mani, charge pipes, oil lines water lines, bov, intercooler, 2.5 down pipe, generic air filter, map management unit( black box ) , 2 additional injectors which come installed in a 3 inch tbody spacer n a fuel management unit. this has been installed in a 2001 civic non vtec 1.5 ( d15y3 ). due to tax n the duty structure in this country the non vtecs are a 1.5 n the vtecs are 1.6. with the kit i got a 10 page manual which had the installation details n the last page had instructions for the fmu n this is how its printed;
    1. MAX P +0.53kg R=5900
    2. RPM PRESET =8500
    3. DEL TIME =060 S ( TURBO TIMER )

    4. BOOST IJ
    p=0.0kg , t=1.8ms
    p=0.1kg , t=2.8ms
    p=0.2kg , t=3.2ms
    p=0.3kg , t=5ms
    p=0.4kg , t=6.6ms
    p=0.5kg , t=8ms
    p=0.6kg , t=10ms
    p=0.7kg , t=13ms
    p=0.8kg , t=14ms
    p=0.9kg , t=15ms
    p=1.0kg , t=17ms
    p=1.1kg , t=19ms
    p=1.2kg , t=21ms
    p=1.3kg , t=23ms
    p=1.4kg , t=24ms
    p=1.5kg , t=25ms
    p=1.6kg , t=26ms
    p=1.7kg , t=27ms
    p=1.8kg , t=28ms
    p=1.9kg , t=29ms
    p=2.0kg , t=30ms

    5. RPM IJ
    rpm=1500 , t=0ms
    rpm=2000 , t=0ms
    rpm=2500 , t=0ms
    rpm=3000 , t=0ms
    rpm=3500 , t=0ms
    rpm=4000 , t=0ms
    rpm= 4500 , t=0ms
    rpm= 5000 , t=0ms
    rpm= 5500 , t=0ms
    rpm= 6000 , t=0ms
    rpm= 6500 , t=0ms
    rpm= 7000 , t=0ms
    rpm= 7500 , t=0ms
    rpm= 8000 , t=0ms

    6. ADJUST RATE =68%
    7. PRE LIMIT =0.8KG
    8. ACYC=17 , T=1.8MS

    now if i insert these numbers in the fmu the car just sputters at 4000 rpms n doesnt go beyond that. if i increase the time, t , at every boost point n the time, t , at every rpm increment then the car gets better. i havent changed the adjust rate n the ACYC since i have no idea what they mean. the boost time n rpm time can be increased by 0.2 ms till 51 ms being the highest point. what i dont understand is that sometimes the car performs better at part throttle than wot. what is the correct way to tune with such functions, now i know that having the car dynod is the best way to tune a car but since we have no dynos in this country i am left with no other option but to ask ull.
    forgive me for this awfully long post but i thought it was best that i explain the whole scenario. any feed back will be much appreciated.
    thanx in advance.
    btw this kit was bought from a supplier in thailand.
     
  2. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    im sure thialnd has dyno's. i have seen some CRAZY cars from your country... sr20's in like EVERY car... 2jz's in s13's... you name it.

    boost-up.com is actually run by a guy in tailand. maybe he can help you find one. nathan is his name if memory serves, and his email is probably nathan@boost-up.com. can't hurt to try.

    What type of system is this unit? i've never heard of a black box before, and have never seen a structure like this.

    However, you give away the key reason to how its running:


    This means you're out of fuel, or over/under-timed.


    1kg/cm^2 is roughly 14psi

    so, it sounds like you're dealing with this set:

    Code:
    p=0.0kg , t=1.8ms 
    p=0.1kg , t=2.8ms 
    p=0.2kg , t=3.2ms 
    p=0.3kg , t=5ms 
    p=0.4kg , t=6.6ms 
    p=0.5kg , t=8ms 
    p=0.6kg , t=10ms 
    p=0.7kg , t=13ms 
    p=0.8kg , t=14ms 
    
    at 7 psi, you aren't going above that.

    as a start, try doubling the mili seconds to opn the fuel injector longer.


    the rpm table, i'd leave alone.. that way when you out of boost, you are using the regular honda fuel map.

    i dont' know what the rate or aycc stuff is either... never heard of it.

    this unit sounds stupid complicated...
     
  3. paki

    paki Junior Member

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    truly appreciate ur reply. well i live in pakistan n almost every after market stuff 4 cars comes from places like thailand malaysia taiwan n china. so the retailer i bought this kit from here said that he had this kit imported from thailand.
    the time T measured in ms is this how long the injectors will stay open or closed. i had a friend call up a performance shop in usa n the person there said that both settings are for the additional injectors n he advised to keep a higher setting at low rpm n then lower it as the rpms rise. i put in a boost meter n it showed that at 6000 rpms i get 7 psi n then it drops to 6.5 psi till redline. nyways i thank u again for ur response n if theres nything u know that ive missed out on feel free to enlighten me.
    thanx in advance.
     
  4. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    ms = miliseconds. its how long the injector pulse width is, or how long it is open for.

    The advice given to you by tthe usa shop is vague.

    For timing, you want to do just that- high in low rpms, and retard it as the rpms go up.
    for fuel, you want to do the opposite.
     
  5. [Freemantle]

    [Freemantle] Senior Member

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    I 2nd that. This unit dosent care about map signal, and sets the fuel tune on the additional injectors on RPM only? I see terrible things for your future highway driving if I am understanding you correctly.
     
  6. paki

    paki Junior Member

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    i dont have a check valve. i removed the map management unit n there was no sputtering but the car hits the limiter at 3500 rpms n if i just remove the additional injectors n leave the map unit in then it still sputters. my boost gauge shows 7 psi by 6000rpms then it drops to 6.5 when i redline. the tables in my fmu for boost injection n rpm injection are they both for the additional injectors?. i checked my ecu # n its a PLC . should i increase the injector time or decrease for better performance. i know this is way to hard to tune without a dyno but since there arent ny here i dont have a choice. need some feedback, thanx in advance
     
  7. pissedoffsol

    pissedoffsol RETIRED

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    you can street tune your car without a dyno, but you need a wideband 02, or lambda unit to accurately measure your a/f.

    turbo charged, you want to be around 12.0:1 a/f . running an FMU, or if your climate is hot, high 11.x:1 are were you want to lean too.
     
  8. [Freemantle]

    [Freemantle] Senior Member

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    I really dont think I am understanding you correctly. Your unit is an FMU that controlls extra injectors by varying pulse duration (duty cycle) with engine speed? If so, then if it was tuned for WOT, the part throttle would be terribly rich due to the lack of boost. I couldn't imagine anyone selling a produce that did that. At first I was under the impression that you were using a rising rate FPR, but that definatly isnt the case. Whatever it is, I don't think the problem is so much in your tuning, but with your equipment. Sounds stupid complicated for what you are trying to do IMHO.
     
  9. paki

    paki Junior Member

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    well i put a resistor in the map sensor wiring n removed the map management unit ( black box ) n kept the additional injectors n their fmu intact . i drove the car n there was no cel n it went smooth. played a bit with the fmu settings n the car is a lot better now with smoother transitions n just a rare amount of sputtering. now i can feel that 6 psi coming out of the turbo now. i guess it was the map unit which was screwing it all up, anyways ill remove the resistor n put in a check valve n further fine tune the car. in future i plan 2 install rsx injectors n tune them with the safc.
    i thank ull for the feedback n will update ull on the ride n im open to all opinions n tips.
    thanx
     
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